[HPforGrownups] A detailed analysis of Snape's hatred of Harry (S.N.O.T.)

[the.gremlin at verizon.net]

No: HPFGUIDX 49141

 would first like to state that I do not have books with me, as they are at 
school, and I am at home...seriously getting second set. I am also not sure how 
long this will get.

Diana wrote
"Not knowing Snape's true history with the Death Eaters, I don't know if Snape 
was always a spy for Dumbledore or is a former evil DE now working for the good 
side."

I am of the belief that Snape was a DE first then changed, but that doesn't 
matter for this post.

"Let's start with Snape as a child in school."

We ony have a rather biased view of what Snape was like in school. So we can 
only go on what Sirius toold HRH. Sirius hates Snape.   

"I imagine Snape is very much like Draco Malfoy at that age.  Sirius even says 
in PoA, while explaining the "prank" they played on Snape to H/H/R in the 
Shrieking Shack, that Malfoy was always sneaking around trying to  catch James, 
Remus and Sirius (and probably that rat Peter) doing something against the 
rules so they would be expelled.  This is what Malfoy does constantly - try to 
get Harry expelled."

IIRC, Malfoy has only done this *once*, in PS/SS, and he got in trouble for it. 
Since then, he has taken to insults about Harry and his friends. We only know 
of the one incident in which Snape snuck about trying to get MWPP in trouble. 
>From Sirius's statement, we can either believe that wherever MWPP went, Snape 
wasn't too far behind, or that Snape got suspicious of MWPP and acted upong the 
suspicion-wrongly. Harry has thought to himself that Snape has given the 
impression of the ability to read minds, but he doesn't seem to be able to. 
He's just really observant and can put two and two together-like only he 
can.  

"Snape was jealous of James' popularity, skill at Quidditch and his small group 
of close-knit friends, all of which Harry now has at Hogwart's." 

James and Harry appear to get away with a lot. Snape believes that there is 
nothing special about Harry or James. Now, Harrry is a cool kid, and powerful 
wizard, but there really is nothing special about him. He defeated V-Mort the 
first time with the help of his mother. He has defeated V-Mort the second, 
third, and fourth times because the incident has left an impression on him, and 
he is a stringer person because of it. It's like a musician who is extremely 
famous and writes awesome lyrics because their family situation as a child 
wasn't that great, yet they came out of it and conquered.

I would like to take this time to apologize for the rest of this post, as I had 
just finished it when I hit the wrong button and lost half of it. Any spelling 
errors, grammatical mistakes, and anything else are attributed to rushing so I 
could hand the computer to those in line for it.

"He even attributes "strutting" to James, and to Harry, though nothing in canon 
suggests that James actually strutted around the school. [C'mon, we all know 
James didn't strut, right?] We know for a fact Harry doesn't "strut"."

We don't have canon that James *did* strut. I can see, as a typical teen, James 
strutting a little after he won a Gryffendor/Slytherin Quidditch match. But 
James and Lily *were not perfect*!!! Just because those who liked them 
attribute martyr's qualities to them does not mean they didn't do bad things!
  
"Well, I would say that Snape went to Hogwart's with a vision himself as *the* 
person [instead of James] who *deserved* the popularity, athletic ability and 
fun-loving personality that James must have had.  The problem was that Snape 
didn't have any of those things and these are things that can be gained by 
waving a magic wand and wishing them to be so." 

I have seen arguments that Snape was popular in his own right, just not the 
same way James was popular. I don't think Snape was the kind of person who 
would want that kind of popularity. We do not have canon evidence to his 
athletic ability, but we can infer from canon that he was somewhat good at 
Quidditch, or at least is a good enough flyer, and knows enough about Quidditch 
to be allowed, by Madame Hooch and the rest of the staff, to referee a 
Quidditch game. I don't see Madame Hooch allowing Hagrid to referee a Quidditch 
match. Of surse, there could be other reasons for that, but I don't think DD 
would let someone who didn't know Quidditch that well referee a Quidditch 
match.

"Despite Snape¡¦s mistaken belief that James only saved Snape from Wolf!Lupin 
to save himself from being expelled, Snape still owes James a life debt, which 
according to Dumbledore is a serious thing in the Wizarding World."

Again, don't have books, but if IIRC, DD tells Harry that Snape takes this life-
dect very seriously. I mean, Snape was a former DE, who hated James, yet is 
trying to return the life-debt 12 years after the man is dead. Peter doesn't 
seem to take his life-debt very seriously, and he's a current DE. 

"Unlike when he was just a powerless classmate of  James, Snape, as an adult 
and a professor, now has power to inflict verbal abuse, bullying and punishment 
on Harry, who not only follows his father¡¦s path in Hogwarts but even looks 
remarkably like him! "

How exactly was Snape 'powerless'? He knew more curses going into his first 
year then most of the seventh years! He was a future DE! He is also very 
sarcastic and witty. How was it not possible for him to go u to MWPP and 
silkily tell them off, or curse them while they were sleeping or something? I 
don't think Snape was powerless as a school-kid. 
 
"Harry breaks the rules anyway despite his anxiety of caught and expelled 
because, like his father, it¡¦s part of his very nature."  

So you're saying that it's all right for Harry to completely abandon the rules 
because it's just what kind of person he is? Just because it's his natural 
tendency? Well no wonder Snape hates him, if he gets off just because teachers 
can say "Oh, it's not his fault, it's just who he is."  

"Snape can¡¦t understand this and sees Harry¡¦s rule-breaking as Harry 
proclaiming how special and famous he is ¡Vso special and famous he won¡¦t be 
punished for breaking rules."

It is proclaiming how special Harry is, if we go with your theory. If Harry is 
allowed to break rules because it's his natural tendency, I would hate him 
too.  IIRC (I know I'm using that phrase a lot), most of the times harry gets 
punished by Snape (with the exception of the escape of Sirius), it's because he 
is breaking a rule for no reason, such as the flying car incident, sneaking 
into Hogsmeade, or wandering around Hogwarts at night. He's not supposed to do 
any of this things, and he has *no reason* to do them. Even DD threatened to 
expel Harry after the car, and Harry was just lucky Lupin saved the day after 
the Hogsmeade incident. Snape thinks that Harry's head is so big that he 
believes rules are above him, as he states in PoA, after Malfoy catches him in 
Hogsmeade. Harry is breaking the rules knowingly, not because he thinks he's 
special, but because he is being selfish, as in Hogsmead, or not thinking, as 
in the flying car.

 "When Harry is called out of class for photos with the other champions, Snape 
is furious because Harry¡¦s luck and *better* life has triumphed again and 
Snape was denied his little *torture of Harry* session."

Actually, I think that this had to do with the fact that Harry was included as 
one of the champions, not because he missed his chance to torture Harry. And I 
think the poisoning incident had something to do with the fact that Harry 
wasn't even old enough or qualified to be a champion, yet he was going to be 
allowed to anyway, because of the whole binding contract thing. 

At the end of PoA, Snape is denied a chance to bask in some glory and fame by 
being the person who saved the life of the famous Harry Potter, so he vents 
with his bitter and nearly unhinged verbal attack on Harry and Hermione in the 
hospital ward.

I don't think Snape was in it to save Harry's life. He didn't even know HRH 
were in the Shrieking Shack because the map didn't show that part. I think that 
he ws in the SS because he wanted to prove that he was right about Sirius and 
Lupin being the bad guys, and got mad at HRH because they interfered. Saving 
Harry's life was an afterthought, when he realized the kids were there.

"Snape can¡¦t claim he saved Harry¡¦s life by muttering a counter-curse to 
Quirrell¡¦s attempt to kill Harry at the Quidditch match in PS/SS because 
Quirrell stopped jinxing the broom before Hermione interrupted Snape¡¦s counter-
curse by setting his cape on fire."

Yes, he can. Quirrel had to stop his curse when Hermione knocked him over in 
her rush to set Snape on fire. Quirrel even admitted the fact that if Snape 
hadn't been doing the counter-curse, Harry would have fallen off sooner. DD 
told Harry (I think) that Snape saved his life, and Harry admits it in GoF, to 
Sirius, in fact! Snape can easily say "I saved your life, Potter", and maybe 
even use it against Harry, but he doesn't. 
 
So, to conclude, Snape is an unpleasant, hateful, spiteful and petty person."

Just out of curiosity (seriously, not trying to be mean), did you consider how 
many flames you would you get in defense of Snape from all his fans? There are 
quite a few on this list
I feel sorry for you inbox
.:D

"I cannot see Snape changing such a basic tenet of his personality and part of 
his life ¡V his intense hatred for, then Harry ¡V in some future book."

Other posts (don't ask me which ones) have argued that Snape will, and is, 
growing throughout the series, and someone (again, don 't ask me who) has said 
that at the end of GoF, when Harry and Snape meet eyes, they both realize that 
there is more to the other then they previously thought, based on events and 
admissions from the past week. 
  
"I wouldn¡¦t be surprised though if the ever observant Harry finally connects 
the dots and sees Snape for how pathetic his hatred really is."

Harry called Snape pathetic to his face in PoA, right before HRH hit him with a 
disarming spell.

"If Harry does that he will take away what Snape most enjoys ¡V getting a rise 
and reaction out of Harry."

It doesn't seem to me like Snape enjoys that. It only makes him more venomous, 
when Harry stands up for himself, friends, or parents. The only time Snape 
enjoys getting a reaction out of Harry is when Harry is trying to get to DD so 
he can take him to Crouch in the forest (GoF), and Snape is not letting him go. 
The text says right there that Snape is clearly enjoying denying the thing that 
Harry wants when he is so panicky (must take a vacation away from HP). In GoF, 
when Snape is muttering all those accusations about Harry breaking into his 
office, he doesn't start getting angry until Harry actually responds. 

"I imagine Harry *might*  feel some pity for Snape ¡V a man¡¦s whose intense 
jealousy of Harry¡¦s father has shaped his very being."

You are completely forgetting what Snape fans, and some others, are most 
interested about: Snape's past as a DE, and why he changed. Extremely important 
in deciding what exactly makes Snape tick. And deep down, I think Harry just 
hates Snape, though is likely to change in the next books.

"Sorry for the novel-length post.  ļ"

I can't feel my wrist, having done this twice. I also apologize if my tone at 
any place seems insulting or hurtful; I'm just angry at having to do this twice

stupid technology. I also know that several people have responded to the 
Diana's original post, but I'll sort through those tomorrow, when I get my 
laptop back, and compile my responses to those (if have any) in one post.

-Acire, Snape's personal defense attorney (if he would have need of one 
without any legal training whatsoever).