Responses to S.N.O.T., detailed analysis of Snape's feelings toward Harry

[Diana <dianasdolls@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 49184

I must apologize for sending my response to the list the first time 
without a title.  I beg the list's forgiveness for sending this long 
thing twice - I did want it be properly Titled.  I accidentally hit 
the Enter key before typing the title.  Sorry. 

And I'm doubly sorry for those on digest like myself.  :{

Thanks for all the interesting responses!  It's been fascinating 
reading different perspectives on Snape attitude to Harry.

I've got some additional statements to explain some misconceptions 
about my original post on S.N.O.T.

First off, I do not hate Snape.  I am intrigued by the character as 
much as the next person.  I, too, wonder what caused him to give up 
his support of Voldemort and gain Dumbledore's trust.  Snape, like 
every character in the book is an integral part of Harry's 
experience at Hogwarts, `warts' and all, to use a pun.  Thankfully, 
no one has flamed me off list for my post about Snape, but I do 
believe that Snape is NOT a nice person.  Whatever he might do in 
future books to help/hinder/annoy/etc. Harry and his friends, it 
does not mean he will suddenly be Mr. Nice-Guy.  

Second, I do not believe that Lily and James Potter were saints.  
Sirius and Lupin have both told Harry some traits that they and his 
father shared that, in hindsight, they aren't so proud of – creating 
the Maurader's Map for one example.  From what canon we do have on 
James, we do know he relished being a sort of scoundrel [Han Solo, 
anyone? :D], like Fred and George, but without, apparently, getting 
caught.  He knowingly abetted and even accompanied a werewolf to run 
loose in Hogsmeade while still a student in school.  Even Lupin and 
Sirius look back on that and can't believe how dangerous and stupid 
they were for doing that.  James even kept his animagus form secret 
from Dumbledore after graduating – a wizard he remained close to 
even after leaving Hogwarts.  Lily is more sketchy as we've not 
received much info regarding her character when she was at Hogwarts 
or afterwards, but I seriously doubt she was a saint.  

I wrote: Snape was jealous of James' popularity, skill at Quidditch 
and
his small group of close-knit friends, all of which Harry now has at
Hogwart?s. Even twelve years after James' death, Snape says,
sneeringly, "...a little talent on the Quidditch field..." with great
derision while interrogating Harry after Harry's head was seen by
Malfoy in Hogsmeade [PoA]. He even attributes "strutting" to James,
and to Harry, though nothing in canon suggests that James actually
strutted around the school."

Jim Ferer wrote:
See? Any sign of popularity, success, or confidence is hateful to
Snape. Confidence, self-worth, comfort in one's skin is bound to look
like "strutting" to someone like Snape.

My response:
Since we're never shown in the books Snape's treatment of other 
popular students in his classes besides Harry specifically, I have 
no canon to support my belief that Snape doesn't treat other popular 
students like he treats Harry.  Granted Harry is mind-bogglingly 
famous, but still
Snape does love to rub Harry's fame in his face.

Oryomai wrote:
Can anyone honestly say that they never hated the 
people who had everything? (If you think you can, then you were one 
of the people with everything *grin*) I know I can't. You twist 
reality in your mind so that these people are keeping you down, and 
you deserve the glory.

I respond:
I can honestly say that I didn't hate those popular kids in school.  
I wasn't part of the popular crowd, either.  I graduated from high 
school 19 years ago this year and I can't even remember most of 
those popular kids names, let alone fathom keeping alive a deep-
seated hatred of any of them just because they were popular and I 
wasn't so many years ago.  I would guess that most people thinking 
back on school are the same way as me
am I right?

I had written:
"Snape can¡¦t understand this and sees Harry¡¦s rule-breaking as 
Harry 
proclaiming how special and famous he is ¡Vso special and famous he 
won¡¦t be punished for breaking rules."

Oryomai responded:
I agree with Snape there. I personally cannot stand people who break 
the rules and get ahead, while those of us who follow get nowhere. 
No one is above the rules. Period. Now, I disagree with you on 
the "can vs. must". Harry doesn't *have* to do anything, he chooses 
to. Hence, can wins to me.

Acire responded:
It is proclaiming how special Harry is, if we go with your theory. 
If Harry is allowed to break rules because it's his natural 
tendency, I would hate him too. IIRC (I know I'm using that phrase a 
lot), most of the times harry gets punished by Snape (with the 
exception of the escape of Sirius), it's because he is breaking a 
rule for no reason, such as the flying car incident, sneaking into 
Hogsmeade, or wandering around Hogwarts at night. He's not supposed 
to do any of this things, and he has *no reason* to do them. Even DD 
threatened to expel Harry after the car, and Harry was just lucky 
Lupin saved the day after 
the Hogsmeade incident. Snape thinks that Harry's head is so big 
that he believes rules are above him, as he states in PoA, after 
Malfoy catches him in Hogsmeade. Harry is breaking the rules 
knowingly, not because he thinks he's special, but because he is 
being selfish, as in Hogsmead, or not thinking, as in the flying car.

I respond:
Here is where we disagree completely.  Harry *must* break the rules 
in the climaxes of the books – his character won't allow any other 
possibility.  Harry could not live with himself if he didn't pursue 
what was right, even at the cost of his life.  He is afraid when he 
goes through the obstacles and while facing Quirrell in the search 
for the Sorcerer's Stone.  He is afraid when he goes into the 
Chamber of Secrets to try to save Ginny's life, even though he 
doesn't "see how Ginny could possibly be still alive" at that point 
in the story.  When he confronts Sirius and then Lupin in the 
Shrieking Shack, he didn't end up there because he was looking for 
Sirius, he ended up there because he thought Ron was going to get 
eaten by a giant dog if he and Hermione didn't save him!  He spent 
the entire fourth book afraid of being attacked, killed, embarrassed 
in front the whole school, failing to measure up to other's 
expectations, you name it!  
When Harry does flout the rules, such as going into Hogsmeade 
without permission, for example, he is being strong-willed, stubborn 
and, quite frankly, naughty.  Look at Draco by comparison, he was up 
late wandering around the school in PS/SS and called attention to 
that fact from McGonagall just so he could get H/H/R in trouble.  
Sure, Harry visits Hagrid at odd times, many times without 
permission, but he's doing it because he loves Hagrid and needs his 
advice and support and/or is trying to provide emotional support for 
Hagrid when Hagrid when he needs it.  Because the books are written 
entirely from Harry's point of view, us readers get to see what 
motivates Harry to do the things he does.  
Harry doesn't get punished for doing those things because, let's be 
frank, he's either just saved someone's life, saved the school or 
been falsely accused.  When Harry has been caught for minor rule 
breaking – he does get punished, McGonagall gives him detention & 
takes points from Gryffindor and Flitwick gave him extra Charms 
homework in GoF.  
As for the flying car incident, Ron, as a lifetime member of the 
wizarding community, really should have known better on that one, 
but, in their defense, they are both only 12 year old boys.  What 
boy wouldn't want to take a flying car to school?  :D of flying a 
car to Hogwarts.  
Harry does get special treatment from Dumbledore and McGonagall, but 
that is because they have their own reasons for doing so.  
McGonagall is head of Gryffindor house and, when mightily pushed to 
the edge, will take lots of points from H/H/R, but, obviously, won't 
punish him by removing him from the Quidditch team – she wants 
Gryffindor house to win the house cup too much!  Dumbledore 
obviously knows something about Harry that we've not been let in on, 
whether it's some prophecy about his defeat of Voldemort or
?  
Dumbledore has his reasons and bends rules accordingly.  Fudge 
saying that "
well, we all have a soft spot where Harry is 
concerned..." is accurate in the wizarding world, but not for the 
teachers at Hogwarts, IMO.  Harry does not regard this special 
treatment by the wizarding world as a "good thing".  His reaction to 
being a celebrity is to run from it – as fast a possible.  
Snape may think Harry has a big head swelled by his fame, but he 
doesn't.  Harry doesn't act like a *famous* person [Gilderoy 
Lockhart, anyone?].  He has only two close friends with which he 
shares everything at school, but that's it.  He is kind of 
emotionally distant from everyone else.  He doesn't *want* to be 
famous and would prefer to sink into anonymity, but has finally 
accepted by the end of GoF that that is never going to happen.  

Bobby responded:
All of a sudden, along comes the son of one of the chief pranksters, 
one of the people he hated in school. The boy looks like his father 
and from the start is a celebrity. He begins to get away with all 
the things the father did. History repeats itself. Snape responds in 
an 
inappropriate manner but one that psychology speaking is right for 
him.

I reply:
I agree, but only in that that response may be pyschologically right 
for Snape, but only Snape.  IMO, Snape is not separating Harry as 
person from Snape's interpretation/recollection of James.  In the 
real world, Snape would be getting some serious counseling.  Harry 
never even knew his father, so blaming him for being like him is 
absurd, but Snape persists anyway.  

I'll respond to some more replies in another post as this one is too 
long already.  

Diana