Death and time

[Steve <bboy_mn@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 49211

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Audra1976 at a... wrote:
> In a message dated 04/01/2003 13:57:49 Eastern Standard Time, 
> Malady579 at h... writes:
> 
> > Buckbeak never died; so therefore, the Time Turner did not "save"
> > his life.  It just allowed what happened in the past to happen 
> > with people from the future.  :D  So then, Cedric could not of 
> > been saved by the TT.  He is, unfortunately, dead.
> 
> Me:
> 
> Okay, I understand that concept that Buckbeak never actually died
> and Cedric did, but Buckbeak *would* have probably died had someone 
> not used the Time Turner to remove him from Hagrid's yard.  So TT 
> users are obviously able to mess with past events.  Their actions 
> have consequences in the future that would not exist had the TT 
> never been used.  
> 
> I think Cedric *could* possibly have been saved by the Time Turner. 
> If  ....edited...
> 
> Audra

bboy_mn:

Read the next post for part of my explaination (#49210, the post I'm
responding to is 49209).

"...Buckbeak probably *would* have died...." We all probably will have
died at some point in our lives, but unless you happen to be dead now,
you haven't died yet. Same with Buckbeak. 

The use of the Time Turner doesn't alter history, it merely explains
how and why history played out the way it did. 

In my other post, I suggest looking at this from Dumbledore's
perspective. He knows Buckbeak wasn't executed. He knows Buckbeak is
gone, but he doesn't know how or why Buckbeak is gone. But, if
Buckbeak can be found, he can use Buckbeak to save Sirius. 

No history is altered at any time. Sirius has not been kissed yet, and
Buckbeak has already escaped. So, why not use that to his,
Dumbledore's, advantage. Send Harry and Hermione back to capture
Buckbeak when he escapes and take him up to save Sirius. That's
Dumbledore's plan. In his mind, Buckbeak is clearly available, no
history has to be changed.

Dumbledore doesn't know until much much later that it was in fact
Harry and Hermione who HELPED Buckbeak escape. Everyone but McNair
thinks that Buckbeak pulled the knot in the ropes apart and walked or
flew away. McNair thinks that someone may have helped Buckbeak, but
has no proof; it's just a suspicion.

If we are at the point in the future where we know Cedic has been
killed; history has been written, and we can't go back and change it
without potential disasterous temporal complications.

Now someone could have gone back in time before Cedric died and did
something to save him. But why would they go back in time and randomly
conk Cedric on the head to keep him from the tournement? How would
they have know it was Cedric who was going to die and not Harry or
Krum? And, wouldn't the tournement administrator wonder what happened
to Cedric and go looking for him? Wouldn't they suspect foul play?
Wouldn't they make sure that issue was resolved before they continued
with the tournement, thereby placing Cedric back in the tournement and
getting him killed? And, if they conk Cedric on the head, could that
have changed the outcome at the graveyard and resulted in Harry being
killed? Changing history is nasty complicated business best left to
the powers of heaven and earth, and the twisted hand of fate.

The number one rule of time travel is that you can't alter history,
and Dumbledore/Harry/Hermione obeyed that rule. They didn't change
anything in the past. Now that we've reach the future and know what
they did, we have an explaination of why the past occurred the way it
did, but no events were truly altered.

Just some more thoughts. Unfortunely, new post are coming faster than
I can type.

bboy_mn