TBAY: Crouch - Last Orders (6 of 9)

[lucky_kari <lucky_kari@yahoo.ca>]

No: HPFGUIDX 49332

>--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ssk7882 <skelkins at a...>"
><skelkins at a...> wrote:
> [Apologies in advance to Eileen.  This one got just a mite bit cruel 
> in places.]

[Well, at least you spared the Cruciatus.]
 
"I think that in the end," Elkins concludes, "Crouch saved his son
because he wanted to."

Eileen nods. "I like that interpretation very much, you know, but you
did say that Mrs. Crouch was trying to manipulate her husband's
emotions in the pensieve scene."

"I really do think she was. But I've always found myself wondering how
hard Mrs. Crouch really had to work on her husband to get him to agree
to her plan."

"Well," says Eileen. "It depends how you read her situation."

"What are you talking about?" says Elkins.

"What was the sacrifice Mrs. Crouch made?" 

"She was about to die anyway," says Cindy. "And instead she died in
her son's place."

"Do you really believe that, Cindy?" says Eileen. 

"Now wait a minute," says Elkins. "You're trying to copy me and it
isn't going to work. Allotting responsibility for saving a person is
one thing, a terminal illness are another. Are you really trying to
say that  Mrs. Crouch was perfectly all right, that Crouch let his
wife sacrifice herself, and then lied about it to Barty Jr.?"

"No, I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. She was seriously ill, and
she was going to die. I'm sure of that. Even if it weren't for the
unlikelihood of the above scenario, she dies very quickly after she
comes to Azkaban. But... I've seen this assumed all the time in
discussions of HP,  that she was at death's door, and so chose between
dying in the Crouch manor and dying in Azkaban. I don't think so. "She
knew she was dying," says Barty Jr., but that doesn't imply at all to
my mind that she was on her deathbed. A friend of mine has been dying
of cancer for the last two years. There's no hope according to the
doctors. But that doesn't mean he isn't dying. It may be another year
still. I think Mrs. Crouch traded in a lot more of her life than a
short time in Azkaban."

"You don't like Mrs. Crouch," Cindy reminds Eileen.

Eileen sighs. "I'll tell you a secret. When push comes to shove, it's
not that I don't like Mrs. Crouch for what she did, it's that I don't
like her archetype. Elkins will get around to that in Part Nine. But
for the moment, let me say that it's not fair how she gets off scot
free. Everyone else gets their fair share of blame, even Winky gets
tarred with arguing for Barty Jr. to go to the QWC. But Mrs. Crouch is
this poor, victimized heroine, who sacrifices herself at great cost,
faints, and her only sin is that she loved too much. Poor woman with
that horrible, horrible husband and son. It's obvious that Rowling
WANTS us to feel warmly towards her, and so I'm not doing it. She was
a member of that dysfunctional household. She had a hand in bringing
up that blight on society"

"Steady on," says Elkins.

"That blight on society," continues Eileen. "Elkins has presented
evidence that she was a mistress of manipulation. And yet, we're
supposed to bow down to her as some paragon of mother love, because..."

"Because what?" asks Cindy.

"Because she's a member of the weaker sex," says Eileen with a look of
disgust. 

"We'll talk more about this later," says Elkins. "But you do think
that Crouch Sr. wanted to rescue his son?"

"Yes. You've talked me into it."

"She didn't have to work that hard to talk you into it either," says
Cindy. 

Elkins sighs. She knows the thoughts going through Eileen?s head at
being  handed this new take on Crouch, and must move to squash them as
quickly as possible before Eileen writes them into - heaven forbid! -
a manifesto. 

"But," says Eileen. "What about my lovely exorcism scene? What's going
happen to it? You know that the entire Crouch Sr./Mrs. Crouch dynamic
is recreated between Crouch Sr. and Winky.  Doesn't that suggest that
in some way when he denounced Winky and released her from service, he
was actually dismissing the shadow of his wife?" Eileen pauses for a
second and then mutters something. 

"Excuse me," says Cindy. "Did you just say "meddlesome females?" 

Eileen ignores the question.  

"You know, I absolutely love this reading?" Elkins tells her. "But
only if I can tweak it a little bit. Because my main problem with it
as it stands is...well what's the *outcome* of that exorcism Really,
Crouch's decisions after the QWC are quite damning, don't you think?"

"No, I don't," says Eileen with false bravado. 

"Well, OK. Rescuing his son from prison was certainly a very
hypocritical thing for Mr. Crouch to have done. Truly sickeningly so."

"It was not!" says Eileen stubbornly. "It was heroic! It was noble! It
was tragic!"

"We're not back here again, are we?" asks Cindy.

"Apparently so," says Elkins, rolling her eyes. "C'mon. Learn to live
with it. Your beloved Barty was a hypocrite."

"But a heroic, noble, and tragic hypocrite."

"Do those even exist?" asks Cindy. 

"Elkins," says Eileen. "Tell me truly. If the story had ended there,
would you call what Crouch Sr. did sickening? Y-you said there were
mitigating factors."

"Mitigating factors," says Elkins to herself. "Yes, I did say that.
There was always a chance from their perspective that Barty Jr. was
innocent, of course."

"I'm beginning to think he was, you know... a bit," Eileen says brightly. 

Elkins stares at her. "You've been listening too long to us
subversives," she says finally. "When I bring up that possibility, I
never expect anyone to take me up on it. It's like
FourthManAveryWithInnocence. It exists, but no-one in their right mind
would want it."

Cindy looks non-plussed. "All right, Eileen. I really think you should
say good night to Elkins, and we'll take a nice stroll up to St.
Mungo's to talk with Dr. George. Barty Crouch Jr. innocent: What next?
Or do you just mean innocent like with Fourth Man Avery: couldn't
manage to aim straight with the Cruciatus?"

Eileen grins. "Closer to that, actually. I have no doubt that Barty
Jr. was a servant of Voldemort, though I wonder if he was quite as
devoted at the age of 19 as he remembers himself to be some twelve
years later. I have no doubt he was at the Longbottoms that night.
And, I would think it was Barty Jr. who got past whatever defences
Frank Longbottom, as an Auror, must have had. There is, I think, an
element of betrayal here, with Crouch Jr. playing Pettigrew's part.
Frank Longbottom would have been wary of the Lestranges and Av... I
mean the Fourth Man showing up on his doorstep, but his boss's son?
Not even a disreputable son. No Prince Hal coming to the door with
Falstaff and company hiding in the shadows. No, we know that Crouch
Sr. certainly took quite a bit of pride in his son during the course
of public conversation."

"WHAT?" cries Elkins. "Did you just compare Barty Crouch Jr. to Prince
Hal?"

Eileen looks at her defiantly, then her head drops. "Just couldn't
help it," she mutters. "They would have got along swell together. Hal
would have loved all those Crouchisms, and Barty Jr. would have loved
Hal's approach to honest communication. They both are actors in every
phase of their lives, in all their relationships. They both are
peculiarly honest even in their dishonesties. Though, in the end, Hal,
being a consummate Slytherin, knew which side his bread was buttered
on, and backed up his poor father (who was, btw, a rather likeable
hypocrite who convinced himself that his ambition was something else
than that), whereas Barty ended up more like Percy Hotspur, completely
consumed by a delusional crusade."

"I'm really not able to wrap my mind about this," says Elkins.
"Voldemort as Falstaff? Mrs. Lestrange as Mistress Quickly?"

"Yeah, I know," says Eileen. "It doesn't go very far.  Anyway, Barty
Jr. went to the Longbottoms that night?"

"Yellow flag," says Cindy. "It could have been daytime."

"The Big Bang theory demands that it be night, so we can get some
contrasting shots between the warm fire-lit inside of the house, and
the dark gloom outside in which the villains creep up, in dark cloaks."

"Oh, all right," says Cindy. "What happened next?"

"Barty Crouch Jr., as I said, got them inside, and then the
Longbottoms were tortured to insanity."

"But didn?t take part in Crucio'ing them, according to you?" says
Cindy. "Far too busy saving Neville, and generally being an all-around
saint?

"Well," says Eileen. "I absolutely love Elkins' "Barty Crouch Jr.
saved Neville's life" theory. It makes perfect sense that Barty
wouldn't believe in the sins of the father being visited on the child.
But actually, I do think that Barty did take part in the application
of Cruciatus, though I don't know if he was really that enthusiastic
about it. That's where we get the emotional punch of the "Unforgivable
Curses" chapter after all, the fact that he was one of those who sent
the Longbottoms insane."

"What do you mean, not really enthusiastic about it?" asks Cindy
sharply. "I don't see where you're getting that. He seems like a loony
fanatic to me."

"Objection!" says Elkins. "You're basing your understanding of the
nineteen year old Barty Crouch Jr. on his certifiable behaviour some
twelve years later. I have argued many times in the past that Barty
was dying of remorse in Azkaban, and only developed his spectacularly
callous attitude as a result of his father's post-Azkaban behaviour
towards him."

"You would," says Eileen, eyeing Elkins with dislike. "And I would
have to end up agreeing with you. That's just how life works, it
seems. So, yes, I don't think Barty was all that proud of that little
affair. Later, he prizes it, as the thing that makes him Voldemort's
"faithful servant", as his chance of escape, but at the time he's
quick to fall prey to the dementors of Azkaban, and in that trial scene?"

"I know what's going on," says Cindy. "You're going to go all bleeding
heart on us. Talk about how his pleas of innocence wrung your heart."

"I didn't think I had to," says Eileen. "Who isn't overwhelmed by that
performance of his? He just sounds so sincere. And given that he is,
as Elkins puts it "peculiarly honest" in his deceptions, it just seems
wrong for him to be entirely lying here.  I forget who it was said
that he sounds like an aggrieved teenager who has been accused of
doing something he hasn't, when he has done a whole lot of other just
as bad things. But lets look at what he said in the Pensieve scene,
shall we?"

"Yes," says Cindy, pulling out a copy of GoF: The Official Annotated
Edition: Now with a new appendix on Death Eater Cells and Bloody
Ambush Theories. "Here you are:

"Father, Father? please?"

"Father, I didn't! I didn't! I swear it, Father, don't send me back to
the Dementors."

"Mother, stop him. Mother, I didn't do it. It wasn't me!"

"No! Mother, no! I didn't do it. I didn't do it, I didn't know! Don't
send me there, don't let him!"

"I'm your son! I'm your son!"

"Father! Father, I wasn't involved! No! No! Father, please!"

"Charming," says Cindy, closing the book, as Eileen and Elkins
shudder. "Well, I really don't think you can say he wasn't lying
there. "I wasn't involved" is pretty specific. And you do propose at
the least that he was involved."

"You never know about Barty Crouch Jr.," says Eileen. "He has a very
individual approach to language, to say the least. And to dishing out
responsibility. Anyway, did you catch the "I didn't know!" ? What do
you think that could be referring to?"

"I didn't know the Lestranges were Death Eaters?" asks Cindy. "After
all, he was apparently caught in their company."

"Yes, that would seem to be the surface reading of that," says Eileen.

"But lately, I've begun to wonder if in his own little twisted
fashion, he?s referring to the fact that he really didn't know what
was going to happen when he agreed to get the Lestranges in."

"Oh yes," says Cindy drily. "The poor innocent thought the Lestranges
wanted to have tea with Frank and his wife."

"No," says Eileen. "I'm certain he knew they were going there for
information about Voldemort's whereabouts. Which would presumably
involve the Cruciatus curse. What he didn't know was how far the
Lestranges were going to go and what it would be like. You see, Barty
led a very quiet and rather pleasant life as a Death Eater, I think.
Unlike Snape, I don't think he actually did get any blood on his hands
during the Voldemort years. He was out of school for a few months
perhaps before Voldemort fell. As a Death Eater, he was being
flattered by those in the know, and shielded from anything unpleasant.
He was supposed to lie low, to not raise any suspicions on his
father's part. I submit that that night was his first acquaintance
with this sort of thing, with torture. And it seems, torture that went
on past any justification. Surely, it would have been obvious fairly
quickly that Frank Longbottom really didn't have any information for
them, or if my favourite memory charm theory is true, until he DID
spit out the information (See Introducing A New Memory Charm Theory ?
Message 42575). Why did it go on so long as to cause insanity? Revenge?"

"For Wilkes," mutters Elkins. 

"Be that as it may," says Eileen. "I don't think he would have much
liked or expected his first taste of this. And then there's the whole
question about Mrs. Longbottom."

Elkins looks disturbed. "I'd rather not talk about that," she says,
her fist clenched tightly over the reins. 

"Cheer up Elkins," says Eileen, "I've actually got some Barty Jr.
apologetics for you here. Now about Mrs. Longbottom."

"Who doesn't get a name," says Cindy.

"Yeah," says Eileen. "Neither does Mrs. Crouch."

There is a short silence.

"Absent mothers, sacrificed on their husband's accounts," continues
Eileen. "Innocents. Non-combatants. I really don't know if Barty would
have felt all that comfortable about torturing the popular Auror's
wife, just as I like to think he spared Neville from harm. After all,
Mrs. Longbottom was in the same position as his mother, married into
the Department of Magical Law Enforcement. There, there, Elkins, does
that make you feel better? "I didn't know!" indeed. Barty did have a
weird but very developed (over-developed) sense of justice, if you
remember."

"Perhaps, but he was still lying through his teeth in the pensieve
scene," says Cindy.

"From a certain point of view," says Eileen. "Now, Barty had to
out-and-out lie from time to time, no doubt of that, but in that scene
he seems to me off in his own little reality, where he has his own
specific idea of what went wrong, and how it wasn't his fault. "I
didn't do it!" and "It wasn't me!" and "I wasn't involved!" could all
refer to the fact that he wasn't actually a part of what he
disapproved of. He "didn?t know" it was coming."

"So, your innocent Barty Crouch Jr. isn't so innocent after all," says
Cindy, with a relieved look. "Just profoundly messed up. What else's new?"

"Well, Crouch Sr. didn't think his son was innocent at all," begins
Eileen. "He knew he was guilty."

"Knew?" says Elkins, with a dangerous look. "How could he have known,
Eileen? How could he have known more than Dumbledore?"

"Well, he thought Barty Jr. was guilty, anyway!" snaps Eileen. 

"Yes," says Elkins. "I do think that Crouch genuinely believed his son
to be guilty, but he might also have been willing to concede the
possibility that there was a chance that his son really *could* be
innocent."

"No," says Eileen. "No, he couldn't."

"He would have been an idiot not to," says Elkins. "As I said, even
Dumbledore was in doubt. Are you saying Crouch was an idiot?"

"But I don't want to think he thought his son could be innocent when
he? when he?"

"Yelled, "You are no son of mine!" says Cindy helpfully.

"Yes!" wails Eileen. "I don't want him to have done that!"

"Wanting Crouch to behave any better than he does," says Elkins with
undisguised glee, "Is a fruitless endeavour. I'm glad to see you
learning that."

"He thought his son was guilty," says Eileen stubbornly. "When push
comes to shove, he did. Even if he knew there was a theoretical chance
he wasn't."

Elkins nods. "You must admit that chance could have had some bearing
on his decision to agree to his wife's plan to free Barty Jr. from
Azkaban."

"Yes," says Eileen slowly. "Yes, it could have. Especially afterwards.
Doubt can grow afterwards, when in the heat of the minute, trying to
escape from a tight corner, it is suppressed."

"Alternatively (and, to my mind, far more likely)," says Elkins, "the
Crouches could have believed that their son was, while technically
guilty, not really a very hard case. Crouch Jr. was very young, after
all. He was barely past the age of majority. His parents could have
believed that he'd been led astray. That he'd been seduced. That he'd
been an accessory, but not an accomplice. That he'd been an
accomplice, but not an active participant."

"You ought to like this one," says Cindy to Eileen. "Judging by what
you've been arguing about Barty Jr.'s involvement the last while."

"I do," says Eileen, her face beaming. "And please note this is making
Crouch Sr. very sympathetic."

Elkins scowls at her. "Just you wait," she hisses. "The text supports
this quite well. Crouch Jr's lack of repentance would seem to have
come as an utter surprise to his father. His father did not put him
under the Imperius Curse until he was fool enough to start shooting
his mouth off about wanting to run off to seek Voldemort.. So I can
see that the Crouches might have thought that rescuing their son from
Azkaban was not an action that would have had any terrible
repercussions or placed anyone at any real risk."

"Which belief, of course, would make Crouch Sr. all the more
sympathetic," insists Eileen again. "Getting himself into something
over his head, under the illusion that his son could be rescued from
the horror of Azkaban and restored to ordinary life. As you said, the
Imperius curse didn't come till later."

Elkins sighs. "Why is it that whatever I say something about Crouch,
you find something to like about it?"

"Yeah," says Cindy. "It's almost like you've come here with a specific
emotional reaction and you?re looking for canons to justify it."

"So, not so foolhardy yet?" asks Elkins. 

"Well, not for the wizarding world. But you have to admit that Azkaban
switch could have gone terribly wrong," says Eileen. "He was risking
himself there. I find that very?"

"Sympathetic," says Cindy. "Yes we know. Continue, Elkins?"

"Crouch's decision to continue to keep his son a prisoner in his own
home even after it became clear that he was both guilty and
unrepentant was also unwise, but again, I can at least see how he
might have managed to justify this decision to himself. His son was
under the Imperius Curse. He was under guard. He wasn't going to break
free. The decision to allow Crouch Jr. to attend the QWC doesn't
strike me as all that foolhardy either, really. Neither Winky nor
Crouch expected that after all of that time, Crouch Jr. was suddenly
going to be able to break free of the Imperius curse. Quite the
opposite, I think."

"True," says Eileen. "It wasn't foolhardy in regards to the general
public.  But it endangered Crouch. I mean, seriously, were he and
Winky smoking something when they came up with their plan? What if
Mad-Eye Moody had gone to take in the Quidditch game and met up with
them? Supposing some rude Bulgarian had sat down in Barty's chair?
Supposing someone had tripped or fallen into him? Supposing Barty had
sneezed loudly? It strikes me as foolhardy."

"They must have thought there could be no harm to anyone in letting
him go watch a sporting event. Both Crouch and Winky can be forgiven
for having assumed that."

"Did Elkins just say she was going to forgive Crouch for something?"
whispers Cindy to Eileen in disbelief. 

"I thought so," whispers back Eileen, "but there might be something
wrong with my ears."

"But *after* the QWC?" says Elkins, a mad glint in her eyes. "After
the QWC, Crouch *had* to have realized what kind of a threat his son
represented to the public at large. That Imperius Curse of
his...well!" Elkins laughs savagely. "Little Barty kicked its ass,
didn't he! No Stockholm Syndrome for little Barty. Ten years of mental
domination, ten years of captivity, ten years of being treated like an
Unperson, and he still kicked it."

"Oh wait a moment!" cries Eileen, "I thought we'd decided that
Voldemort's power allowed Barty to throw off the Imperius! Not Barty's
forceful personality and strong will."

"So," Elkins says, ignoring Eileen's objections. "What does Crouch do,
now that he no longer has all of these womenfolk around to lure him
into endangering both himself and the public by taking foolish risks
with his son? What would *Brutus* have done?"

"I know, Elkins," says Eileen, looking at her shoes. 

"And Crouch didn't do it, did he?"

"I think that's s..."

Elkins waves her words aside. "I don't like hypocrites," she says.
(Eileen looks offended.) "He won't risk prison for his crimes, he
won't take the appropriate actions to protect the world from his son,
and he won't even face up to his own undeniable pathology!  Instead, he 
projects it onto the people around him. Poor old Mr. Crouch.  Finally
ran right *out* of wives, didn't he?  No one left to blame. So sad."

Cindy looks at her with amazement "You can't really tell us that it
would have made you like Crouch any better if he had been able to put
his helpless Imperio'd son down like a rabid dog, can you?  It's just
not *like* you, Elkins!  You *hate* that sort of thing!"

Eileen nods her head vigorously. "It's sympathetic!" she says. "Like
I've been telling you for months!"

Elkins blinks.  She frowns.

"Ordinarily, yes, I suppose that I would find it rather sympathetic
for someone to refuse either to hand his helpless captive over to be
psychologically tortured to death in a hellish prison or to kill him
in cold blood.  But when that someone is Barty Crouch?"

Elkins' hobby horse lays back its ears and whinnies dangerously.  

"When it is *Crouch?*" Elkins repeats.  "When that someone is 
CROUCH?  Crouch, who authorized his Aurors to use torture on 
suspects?  Crouch, who allowed them to AK people instead of even 
bothering to *arrest* them?  Crouch, who permitted his Aurors to 
coerce, torment and kill on the basis of nothing more than the merest 
*suspicion* of malfeasance?  On their merest *whim?*"

"Okay, okay," laughs Cindy.  "Calm down."

"When that someone is *Crouch?*" Elkins repeats, her voice now rising
uncontrollably.  "Crouch who sent people to prison for life on the
basis of no evidence?  Sometimes without even benefit of a trial?  
Who was supposedly willing to bind his son over to torment and death, 
so long as he didn't have to actually *watch* it?  Because he was so 
very concerned about the safety of the *wizarding world?*  So very 
devoted to the protection of the *public?*  Even at great personal 
*cost?*  So very *self-sacrificing?*  You're trying to tell me that 
this man was *squeamish?*"

"Geez.  Take deep breaths, will you?  You're--"

"When it's *Crouch?*" shrieks Elkins.  "When it's CROUCH?  When it's
*Crouch,* then it doesn't make me like him.  It just *sickens* me!  
It is absolutely *despicable!*"
 
"Look, would you--"

"Gah!  As if none of the people he sent to prison or let his Aurors 
torture and murder had relatives who loved them!"

"Calm down, okay?  You're--"

"Men like Crouch don't have the *right* to be squeamish," snarls 
Elkins. "Men like Crouch should be getting blood under their 
*fingernails.*  They should be *wading* in it.  They should be armpit 
*deep* in viscera.  They should learn how it *smells.*"

"Okay, Elkins.  Relax.  It's all right.  He's just a character in a
children's book.  A really really *minor* character in a--"
 
"CROUCH WAS JUST PLAIN EVIL!" screams Elkins, spit flying from the
corners of her mouth.  "I HATE HIM I HATE HIM I **HATE** HIM!"
 
There is a short shocked silence.

"Well, sure, Elkins," says Eileen reasonably.  "But don't feel that 
you have to hold back on our account.  Why don't you tell us all how 
you *really* feel about Barty Crouch Sr.?"

Elkins stares at her, her mouth opening and closing silently, then 
lets out a single strangled scream.  Her horse screams as well and 
rears up onto its hind legs.  Eileen yelps and dives for cover 
beneath her CRAB CUSTARD table.  Cindy hunkers down, ducking flailing 
hooves, her hands tightened around her Big Paddle.  Elkins spits out 
a word unsuitable for this list and pulls hard on her reins.  Her 
horse screams once more, wheels, and then takes off down the 
promenade at a fast gallop. 
 
Cindy straightens slowly.  She stares down the promenade, watching 
the seagulls rise squawking out of the path of Elkins' horse.  

"Well?" she says. "What do you have to say to that?"

Eileen peers out from beneath her table. "What can I say? I could yell
back, "I LIKE HIM!" several times, which would be true, and just as
valid a point. I happen to like fictional characters who draw a line
somewhere, even if it's really in the wrong place altogether.
Squeamish!Crouch is my cup of tea, really."

"Bent," mutters Cindy. "The both of you. But I heard you during that
MAGIC DISHWASHER argument, Eileen. Weren't you saying to Abigail that
you'd only sign up for my Dumbledore has sent Snape to kill Karkaroff
theory under MAGIC DISHWASHER, because, DISHWASHER Dumbledore has no
right to be squeamish."

Eileen looks pained. "But I don't like DISHWASHER Dumbledore," she
says, "No offense to Pip, Melody, Grey, and the other inhabitants of
the Safe House, of course. I just don't like him. And I like Crouch."

"So, in other words you're only confirming what Elkins said a long
time ago."

"That we don't like characters for the canons we can muster in their
behalf. We like the characters and then we go searching for the
canons. Yeah, I suppose so."

"But that's not an interesting response," says Cindy. "It has no Bang!
Couldn't you come up with something that involved yelling, and mixed
metaphors and..."

"Well," says Eileen. "I could give it a shot. Hey Elkins!" she calls.
"Are you coming back here? WHAT DO YOU MEAN: "THE MEREST WHIM?" WHAT
EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT PEOPLE WERE BEING TORTURED AND
MURDERED ON THE MEREST WHIM?"

A large book sails through the air, hitting Eileen on the head. "Ow,"
she says, "636 pages, and it's fallen open to Page 457."

"I would say he became as ruthless and cruel as many on the Dark Side."

"HEY ELKINS!" yells back Eileen. "Since when do we take everything
Sirius Black says as true?" A snarl greets her. "But more seriously,"
says Eileen to Cindy. "You'll notice that Sirius never says Crouch was
ruthless and cruel and despiadado on the merest whim. He wasn't
letting Frank Longbottom off the neighbours for the ping-pong table,
as I've said before. In Fact..." Eileen pauses, then leans closer to
Cindy, "You know what. I'm getting more and more sure of this. Crouch.
Had. Standards. Standards that didn't really make sense. Lines drawn
where they shouldn't be. Standards that he twisted. But I don't think
he at all wanted to be standardless, I don't think..."

They are interrupted by the return of Elkins. "Have I mentioned," says
Elkins calmly, one hand still at her throat, her eyes still fixed on
her wrist watch.  "That I *really* don't like Barty Crouch Sr.?"

"You've mentioned it a few times," answers Eileen politely.  "Yes."

"At any rate," Elkns says.  "Crouch's actions after the QWC make it 
very difficult for me to believe that his wife ever had to put all 
that much pressure on him to get him to agree to rescue their son.  
He seems far too heavily invested in his son's life for me to believe 
that."

"I'll drink to that," says Eileen.

"Yes, good idea," says Cindy. "We can call it a day and we can all go
off to the Royal George for a pint."

"It's appallingly irresponsible behavior," continues Elkins.
"Pathological, really.  A pathological behavior pattern that he
projects upon others because he can't face up to it himself.  Because
I do think that he was projecting onto Winky at the QWC, you know. I
think he was seeing himself. I don't think that Mr. Crouch liked
himself very much. I don't really think that he was lying, you know,
when he claimed to despise and detest the Dark Arts and all those who 
practice them.  Really," she asks.  "Would *you* like yourself very
much, if you were Bartemius Crouch?"

"Elkins," says Eileen, her face drawn. "I... No... No. Hypocrites
don't usually like many aspects of themselves, egotists though they
are." She has taken off her glasses and began to fiddle nervously with
them. "They set standards and fall short of them, but they still
believe in the standards. And they try to convince themselves that
they aren't falling short... I mean, I seriously believe that honesty
is the best policy and well, I'm not entirely honest am I? But...
well... pretending is better than not. I find hypocricy a lot more
attractive, a lot more human than honest evil... usually. Hypocricy,
after all, makes the world go around... I've said that I identify with
Percy Weasley, but perhaps Percy wouldn't have been like me. I used to
steal chocolate from the cupboard... Well, actually, I still do raid
the cupboard for chocolate from time to time, but now that I'm
nineteen it's tolerated in the family as one of my eccentricities. Hot
Chocolate Powder. Chocolate Chips. Baker's chocolate. Chocolate syrup.
Oh, I'm a chocoholic all right."

"What does this have to do with Crouch?" asks Cindy. 

"But whenever any of my younger brothers tried to steal chocolate from
the cover, I was on them in a flash. Chewed them out, I did. And
really, that was for the better. Because at least I was only stealing
the chocolate. If I'd said, "It'd make sense that I should hold them
to  the same standard I applied to myself," they'd have eaten my
parents out of house and home."

"You should have said, "It'd make sense that I should hold myself to
the same standard I applied to them," says Cindy disaprovingly. 

"Yes, it would have," agrees Eileen. 

"And you expect to use this little anecdote about chocolate to make
Crouch likeable?"

"Well, Cindy," says Eileen, with a pained smile. "I do have more
applicable anecdotes. It's just I don't fancy baring my soul to the
list any further than I already have. But the point is that I don't
find hypocricy very repellant. I find it incredibly sympathetic. For
obvious reasons. Elkins?"

"And I think that his denunciation of Winky was in part an expression
of self-hatred. But really, it works fine for me either way.  Whether
you think that he was seeing himself or his wife in Winky, the basic
principle remains the same.  After all, I'm sure that Crouch saw
himself in his wife, too."

Eileen's lip begins to quiver, she suddenly clasps her hand over her
mouth to hide the laughter. 

But, after finally managing to stop, Eileen dons a slightly Malfoy
smirk, and says, "You do realize, of course, That you're only making
him *more* sympathetic with all of this?  At least from a Bleeding
Heart perspective, you are.  I just claimed that Crouch fell into
error due to his love for his wife and his overwhelming sense of True
Wizarding Honour.  But here you have him erring out of love for his
son as well, a love so powerful that it overrides even the most
compelling practical reasons not to continue to show him mercy."

"Love?"  Elkins stares at her.  "Who said anything about love?  Or 
about mercy, for that matter?"

"That'd be me," reminds Eileen gently. 

"You think *that's* why Crouch wanted so very badly to keep his son 
alive?" demands Elkins.  

"Err... yes," says Eileen. 

"And not only to preserve his life, but also to allow him a kind of
perverted illusion of independence?  Under the Imperius Curse and kept
indoors, yet never actually physically restrained?  In full view of
others, and yet invisible?  Capable of walking right up to the front
door, but never of passing beyond it? Permitted a kind of sick twisted
parody of autonomy?  Turned into  a...a kind of a *meat marionette?* 
You think that was done out of *love?*"  

"Well, I--"

"That's not love," snaps Elkins.  "That bears about the same 
relationship to love as rape does to sex. I don't think that Crouch
was about love, really. That's not his role. It's not his 
function. It's not what he's all about."

"Here you go talking about those motifs again," cries Eileen. "Really.
It's enough to make me a Stanislavskian!" 

"Crouch is not about *love,*" Elkins spits.  "Crouch is about 
domination.  Crouch is about narcissism.  Crouch is about coercion.  
Crouch is about control.  But primarily, Crouch is all about the 
denial of volition.  And that's not compatable with love.  How can 
you love other people if you don't even respect their right to exist 
*as* other people?"

Eileen fidgets in her chair. "But Elkins," she says. 

"But Elkins what? Tell me, O you who grew up with Molly and Arthur
Weasley for parents, is that how you define love?"

Eileen's lip trembles, and then, as if in a trance, she recites from
memory, "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not
boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is
not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not
delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects,
always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." 

"Sounds like Crouch Sr. to me," says Elkins snidely. 

"But where there are prophecies, they will cease;" continues Eileen,
"where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is
knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in
part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was
a child, I talked as a child, I thought as a child, I reasoned as a
child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see
trhough a glass, darkly; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in
part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 

Eileen pauses. "We're still in the Shadowlands," she says. "We know in
part and we prophesy in part. And love is sullied and tarnished. But
it still is there. When a man risks his life to save his guilty son
from torment and death in Azkaban, believing that he can restore his
son to life, when he risks everything because he will not kill his
child, I see love there." 

"I'm sure that Crouch believed that he loved his son," Elkins 
says.  "I'm absolutely positive of that.  I'm sure that he told 
himself that he was taking such pains to preserve his son's life not 
only to honor his wife's last wishes, but also because he truly and 
genuinely loved his son.  But I'm not altogether convinced that Barty 
Crouch Sr. really understood the meaning of that word.  I don't think 
that he really got that whole love concept any better than Voldemort 
does."

"Slander," says Eileen flatly. "Voldemort, who casually discounted the
 sacrifice of a parent vs. Crouch who died in the end to save his son?"   
 
"Is it slander?  The Crouch family plotline is awfully strongly tied to 
Voldemort, isn't it?"  

"And to other things," said Eileen. "Mrs. Crouch is tied awfully
strongly to Lily Potter, isn't she?" 

"My mother saved me," says Cindy thoughtfully. 

"But, of course," says Eileen. "Mrs. Crouch wasn't the only one who
saved him. We've seen that Mrs. Crouch's sacrifice was on a larger
scale Crouch's sacrifice, in the end, as well. If his wife was his
mirror, what does that say about him?"

"Is that a motif?" asks Cindy excitedly. 

"Nah," Eileen shrugs her shoulders. 

"Why did Crouch place his son under the Imperius Curse when he 
realized that he was still devoted to Voldemort's cause?" demands 
Elkins.  "Why did he keep him around even after Bertha Jorkins not 
only discovered him, but also overheard him saying something so 
damning that when Voldemort hears of it, he will return to England in 
full confidence that he can rely on Crouch Jr's devoted service?  Why 
is he so determined to keep him safe from harm?  Why does he remain 
so determined even after the QWC, when it becomes clear that his son 
is strong, powerful, dangerous, mad, and still unrepentent?"
 
"Because--"
 
"Not because he loved his wife," answers Elkins harshly.  "Not 
because he loved his son.  Not because he was merciful.  And 
certainly not because he was *squeamish.*  But because his son *was* 
still unrepentent.  That's why.  Because if Barty Jr. had died with 
his loyalty and his allegiance still intact, with his *Otherness* 
still intact, then Barty Jr. would have *won.*  And Crouch wasn't 
willing to allow that.  He wasn't going to let his son win.  He 
wasn't going to allow him to be Other.  Not even in death.  Crouch 
wanted that boy to reflect him in more ways than just carrying his 
name.  Crouch wasn't even willing to cede his son to human volition; 
you think that he was going to cede him to *death?*" 

Elkins clasps her hands over each other, trying to stop their now
quite violent shaking.  She takes a deep breath.

"Voldemort presents as a father figure in the graveyard." she says 
again, very softly.  "And he is strongly textually linked to Crouch 
Sr.  Do you want to know why I think that Crouch Sr. was so terribly 
invested in keeping his son alive?  Do you?  Do you really?  I think 
that it was because obedience was a virtue that Mr. Crouch wanted to 
teach his son.  It was a virtue that he wanted to teach him before he 
died."

There is a very long silence. Cindy and Eileen look spooked. 

"Elkins," says Eileen softly. "Barty Crouch Jr. tortured the
Longbottoms. Did you want him to win? His Otherness was repulsive. I
would have been very tempted to teach him the virtue of obedience myself."

Elkins frowns at her. "Really?" she says.

"Yes, in fact. That's another one of my big faults. I insist on
carrying on any disagreement until the other person's will snaps, and
they acknowledge I'm in the right. Because I've convinced myself over
the last nineteen years that being in the right allows you to do that.
In fact, Elkins, I can be quite nasty that way. I mentioned that I had
a brief spell as a victim turned bully. I reduced people to tears
regularly, never let them a way out, never allowed them an opinion
different than mine. I'm working on it, but that is one of my faults.
And if, after rescuing my son from prison, he continued to hold
alliegance to this hideous ideology, this horrendous terrorist group,
to evil, oh, I would be tempted... And that's all wrong, but I can
just see myself standing there in Crouch's shoes."

"And in the end, it's about identification with the text," says Cindy. 

"Yes," says Eileen. "In the end, it's about where you can see
yourself. And sometimes, Elkins, sometimes I do see myself in Barty
Jr. But not so often. But there is a never a time, reading the books,
when I don't identify with his father. In fact," says Eileen, "I don't
think there's a fault Crouch has that I don't share. In much more
moderate proportions, of course," she adds hastily. 

She looks around. 

"I like renunciation," she says firmly. "It's what makes
Subversive!Neville so appealing to me. When was the day that I decided
to yank myself out of politics, and focus on becoming a teacher? Must
have been a year and a half ago."

"What do you think that Crouch Sr. wanted very badly?" asked Elkins.
Badly enough to have a bit of a 'mania' about it?" 
 
"Well," says Cindy slowly.  "According to Sirius, he wanted to catch 
just one last Dark Wizard..."
 
"Right. So why did Crouch become so apoplectic at his son's
sentencing?" demands Elkins.  "Why did he react that way?  What was he
really *seeing,* do you think, when he looked down at his son in the
dock?  At his son,  who shared his name?  At his son, who stood
accused of *trying to restore Voldemort to power?*"

"And of planning to resume the life of violence that he had led 
before Voldemort's fall," murmers Cindy.

Eileen shudders. "Parallel scenes," she whispers.  "You insisted on
claiming that Crouch was seeing himself in Winky when he denounced
her.  Because you see him as a narcissist.  As somebody who sees
himself in others."

Elkins nods slowly.
 
"You see him," says Eileen.  "As someone who stares at his own 
*reflection.*  The mirror reverses..."
 
"The mirror reverses," agrees Elkins quietly.  

"But that which the mirror reverses, it also always reflects."

There is a very long pause. 

"Do you have me under Imperius?" asks Eileen seriously. "Because
however much I might sympathize with Crouch's flaws, the truth is that
I'm much more likely to be Imperio'ed than to be casting the curse. 

Elkins looks away. 
 
"A somewhat submissive personality," says Cindy to herself. "I think
that it gave him a secret sick *thrill* to allow more dominant types
to "force" him to do Things No Decent Person Would Ever Do. I don't
think that he fought very hard against it at all. I think that he
kinda liked it."

**********************************************************************
> 
> REFERENCES
> 
> This post is continued from part five.  It is primarily a response
> to messages #45402 (Crouch Sr as Tragic Hero), #45693 (Crouch and 
> Winky) and #46923 (It's All Winky's Fault), but it also cites or 
> references message numbers 37476, 38380, 39102, 43010, 44258.
> 
> 
> For further explanation of the acronyms and theories in this post, 
> visit Hypothetic Alley at
> http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/faq/ 
> and Inish Alley at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/database?
> method=reportRows&tbl=13

The last line is part of Elkins's explanation of
FourthManAveryWithImperius.