TBAY - Crouch - (7 of 9) Through a Glass, Darkly

[Eileen]

No: HPFGUIDX 49869

"Mirror, Mirror on the Wall
I am my father after all."

"I think I have a strong tendency towards narcissism,"
says Eileen thoughtfully. "But then, I read Percy as
having that tendency as well. I don't know if you do,
but the way Percy can bring any conversation around to
himself... Seemed frighteningly familiar. Like the
dinner table at my house. Except no-one listens to me
on that particular topic, like Percy. Percy's not like
Crouch really, and neither am I. We lack a lot of his
attributes, charisma, for one thing, but among his
other roles, I think Crouch does present a warning to
Percy in regards to narcissism. Because, in the end, I
think that's Percy's temptation, not primarily
straight out ambition, or making the end justify the
means. "

"Crouch made his son his mirror," says Elkins with a
twisted smile, "And the law of the mirror took over.
Nemesis."

"I don't like Nemesis," says Eileen blankly.

"Don't like Nemesis?" says Elkins incredulously.
"Everyone likes Nemesis."

"Well, I don't," says Eileen. "I took an immense
disliking to Nemesis very early on. It's too fair.
"Use every man after his desert, and who should 'scape
whipping?" It might be appropriate for the punishment
to fit the crime, but it's more than I can stand. I
always sympathize with people who get slammed with
Nemesis." She pauses and adds in a lower tone, "though
I like seeing it in literature. Nemesis is painful for
me to read, and therefore rather... enjoyable. Oh I
agree, Crouch got slammed with Nemesis. Big time." 

"Well I found it enjoyable for a very different
reason," says Elkins gleefully. "After that appalling
treatment of his son."

"Appalling?" shout Eileen and Cindy together. 

"Three-square meals a day," says Cindy.

"Winky waiting on him hand and foot," says Eileen.

"Unlimited soap operas and talk shows," says Cindy.

"He could have taken up knitting or learnt to play the
piano," says Eileen.

"Eating ice cream from the pail," says Cindy. 

"Never having to do a stitch of work," says Eileen. 

Elkins stares at them. "Are we even reading the same
*book* here?"

"Being under the Imperius curse was a heap nicer than
Azkaban," says Eileen stubbornly.

"Which does Harry choose?" spits out Elkins. "Imperius
or suffering?"

"But Elkins, we've already said that Mr. and Mrs.
Crouch almost certainly did not envisage a life under
Imperius for Barty Jr. In this case, what was easy was
right. If Barty Jr. had only been repentant, like his
father wanted, all would have been well. It wasn't
Azkaban or the Imperius curse. It was Azkaban,
Imperius, or Redemption. Barty Jr. refused that last
choice, when it was miraculously offered to him. He
bears some responsibility for what happened afterwards
imnsho. He forced his father's hand."

"Forced his father's hand, did he? Ultimately, Crouch
Sr. is a personification of soul murder: he is the
Dementor's Kiss. Does anyone deserve that, Eileen?"

"Some people... for some things," mutters Eileen.
"Anyway, what did he do his son that was so terrible?"

"Have you ever given any thought to the precise manner
in which Crouch *chose* to imprison his son, Eileen?
Have you? *Have* you?"

"Err... no. My mind was elsewhere occupied."

"Crouch Jr. was always with Winky. He was permitted to
speak to no one else."

"That sort of comes with the territory, doesn't it?"
says Eileen weakly. "Hardly hideous inhumanity on
Crouch Sr.'s part."

"He was to remain under an Invisibility Cloak night
and day. Night. And. Day. In other words, he was
compelled to sleep in it."

Eileen lifts up her hand to object, then lets it fall.
"You know, Elkins," she says in a defeated voice.
"That always has bothered me. And judging from Harry,
invisibility cloaks are dashed difficult to keep on
properly without inconvenience. Not to mention that if
I had been in Crouch Sr.'s place, I wouldn't have been
too keen about having Invisible!Barty Jr. skulking
about the house."

"Weren't we talking a while back, Eileen, about the
closest real life analogue to the Imperius Curse? I
seem to remember that we thought that it would
probably be *drugs,* didn't we?"

"The NKVD," mutters Eileen. 

"Am I really the only person in the entire *universe*
who read the book this way? Presumed dead. Social
isolation. Denied sunlight. 24 hour surveillance.
Infantilizing language. Degrading treatment. In plain
sight, but made invisible. Rewards granted for
compliance -- and presumably, by the same token,
withheld in response to defiance. Hypnotic agents. 
Crouch wasn't just keeping his son a prisoner. He was
attempting indoctrination."

"After his son had been indoctrinated by Lord
Voldemort," mutters Eileen. "How heart-breaking was
that? It's like Crouch's actions as Head of the
Department of Magical Law Enforcement. You refuse to
see him as responding normally to tragic and terrible
events. Everything has to be seen as an opportunity to
further his control over others. There's a good lot of
truth in that, as you've demonstrated, but in the end,
I still feel that very often his horrendous behaviour
is rooted in a response to horrendous events. Frank
Longbottom being tortured by his own son. That son
defying him and announcing his plan to go and bring
back Voldemort. And then... well..."

"Out with it, woman!" spits Cindy.

"I don't know if this is particularly fair, since
Elkins has never really come straight out and said
this on the list, as far as I recall, but didn't you
tell me in a private email that you got "the
impression that Crouch did a lot of Just Not Thinking
Things Through when it came to his son?" In which
case, was he really trying to destroy his son's
identity?"

"The man set out to destroy his son's sense of self.
Ruthlessly. Deliberately. Methodically."

"Elkins, no. Please don't say that," says Eileen.
"Couldn't he have thought that allowing Barty Jr. the
freedom of the house was a kindness on his part?"

Elkins looks at her with mingled pity and disgust,
"What Crouch told himself and the deep down truth are
two very different things. As you may have learnt by
now. Crouch's behaviour towards his son was
abominable."

"Agreed," sighs Eileen.

"Agreed?" 

"Yes, just as the man's behaviour as Head of Magical
Law Enforcement was abominable. But not entirely
unsympathetic."

"Yes, he was reacting? Poor Barty Crouch Sr. just
can't keep control of himself? Has to commit
atrocities every time life deals him a bad hand?"

"Something like that, but... Elkins, I really don't
know how to respond to this. I had a very different
reaction to the Veritaserum chapter. There was
something in there that made me like Crouch Sr. But I
don't know what. I..."

Eileen gazes down at a book that has miraculously
appeared on the railing beside her. 

"Unfogging the Future, by Cassandra Vablatsky," reads
Cindy. 

"Why not?" asks Eileen, picking up the book and
opening up the section on Tea Leaves. "Cindy, where's
that cup of tea you made me?"

Cindy passes over the cup of cold undrunk Earl's Grey,
which she had faithfully carted back from the Golden
Wood. Eileen chugs it down quickly, and then looks at
the bottom of the cup. 

At the bottom, the tea leaves have formed into these
words. 

"Elkins: And his son wouldn't have been very good
company for him, I wouldn't think. Not under the
Imperius Curse. Even assuming that Crouch had *wanted*
to deal with his son on any normal or personable
level, which I don't believe for a second that he
did."

"Elkins," says Eileen. "You're going to say that?"

"I am?" asks Elkins. "Though, yes I'd agree with that.
I'll have to write it in Part Eight."

"YESSSSSSSSS!" shouts Eileen. "Yes! Yes! Yes!" She
throws her arms around Elkins, who looks very
uncomfortable. "You've found me my canon!"

"Wait a second," says Elkins, disentangling herself,
"What canon?"

"You finally said something that didn't seem right to
me, so I went back to the books to look for evidence
of whether Crouch communicated personably with his
son. And I found it! Veritaserum: "He said it damaged
her memory permanently."

Elkins stares at her. 

"You said Crouch was a narcissist. I agree. I think he
talked to his son a lot. About himself, of course. But
a lot, and on a more or less personable basis. We have
him on record as speculating about the results of
Bertha's memory charm to Barty Jr. And then... 

Elkins, this explains something that's been bugging me
a long while. Where did Barty Jr. get all that
knowledge to play his part in GoF, do you think? You
can't waltz about with no idea of what happened for
the last eleven years and successfully imitate a
famous Auror, what? A week's crash course won't cut
it. Especially a week's crash course taught by
VapourForTwelveYears!Voldemort and
RatForTwelveYears!Pettigrew. 

Plus, where did he learn so much about Moody? Did
nineteen year old Crouch Jr. know the famous Auror so
well as to be able to fool Dumbledore? And then
managed to pick up any changes in his character and
circumstances over the past eleven years very, very
quickly? That's highly unlikely. But his father would
have. The only place Barty Jr. could have got all that
information was from his father. 

And the Death Eaters at the World Cup. How did he know
they were unfaithful? That they had forgotten
Voldemort? Oh he, heard all that at home. In stirring
detail, I'm sure. 

When Crouch Sr. came home from work, he talked. He
talked and talked and talked to a captive audience.
His son was forced to listen. And it appears that what
Crouch talked about was everything. Every detail of
life in the world outside. He kept nothing back. Even
though it would have been better for the purposes of
indoctrination to do so. Elkins, do you think they
would have acted like that in the Lubyanka? Isn't the
whole point of breaking down a person's individuality
to cut them off entirely from the outside world? It
was the fact that Crouch didn't cut him off so
entirely, that let Barty Jr. cling to Voldemort,
instead of submitting to his father. Drove into his
head the rage against the DEs who walked free, since I
imagine Crouch talked a lot about them. 

Crouch Sr. did not set out to entirely destroy his
son's sense of self. He tried to indoctrinate him in a
very human way, by talking to him. Normally. As a
human being. Telling him everything about his daily
life. About the Ministry. About politics. He was
lonely, you know. And add that to the treatment that
*was* deplorable and we have the recipe that allowed
Barty Jr. to end up dissasociated but with his will
unbroken. 

And I find that very humanizing. Coming home after a
long day at the office, sitting down to dinner, and
starting in on dissecting Bagman's character. And
meanwhile Barty Jr. is storing everything away in his
mind for future use. That is human. That is pitiable."

"Don't ask me to pity Crouch," Elkins spits. "Don't
ask
me to sympathize with him. Don't ask me to like him.
And
*don't* talk to me about angels. Not unless you mean
*avenging* angels. Don't tell me that the text invites
our sympathies with him. There is nothing to
sympathize *with* when it comes to Barty Crouch Sr. He
is identity loss personified. He is soul murder. He is
the Dementor's Kiss. He is Evil Incarnate."

There is a very long silence. Eileen looks desperately
around for an escape route. This time, she is in for
it. She will not get away to spin Crouch apologetics
another day. She will be forever known on the list as
the person who crossed Elkins and paid for it. She
contemplates throwing herself at the feet of Elkins's
hobbyhorse, and grovel for mercy, but then realizes
that this would be the surest way to be trampled. She
hears a blur of voices. Is that Elkins screaming? And
then suddenly, something is thrust in front of her
face. A tag bearing the words, "AFFECTIVE FALLACY." 

"Elkins!" gasps Eileen, shocked. "Get down from
there!"

Cindy tosses her roughly to the ground. 

"Okay," says Eileen. "Now that you're down off of that
*fallacy* of yours, you can't honestly deny that the
text invites our sympathies with Crouch, can you? I
mean..."

""Oh, of *COURSE* the text invites our sympathies with
him!" screams Elkins. "Man gets a redemption scene,
doesn't he?"

Eileen rocks back on her heels and smirks unbecomingly
at Cindy.

"Told you," she says.

"Although," Elkins says softly. "I could argue against
Redeemed In Death Crouch, you know. If I wanted to."

"I've been expecting you to," says Eileen. "For a long
time. I posted that rousing defense of the redemption
scene at the beginning of September and I was really
expecting you or Cindy to chime in and attack it."

"Have you? Yes. Well. You see, if I *wanted* to argue
against Crouch's redemption, then I suppose that I
would ask you just this one little thing. Just one
simple question." Elkins narrows her eyes. "Does he
see his sin?" she asks. "Does Crouch ever see his sin?
His  refusal to recognize the autonomy of others?" 

"Yes, I think he did," says Eileen.

"What does the text say? He knows that he's in
trouble,
certainly. He knows that the world is in peril, and
that it's in some sense his fault. But does he
actually comprehend the *nature* of his crimes? Has he
come to any real recognition of where he went wrong?
Has he really? All that he actually *says* is that he
has done a 'stupid thing.' Not wicked. Not evil. Not
wrong. Just
'stupid.'"

"But Elkins," says Eileen. "You have to remember that
we're at a point in the story where it's important for
JKR to keep us in the dark over what Crouch actually
did. He can't be specific and self-accusing, because
JKR  doesn't want us to get wind of the truth. So
there!" She smiles triumphantly, and makes to march
off. 

But a woman, wearing a large hat, a cloak up to her
chin, and sunglasses, stops her. "You can't do that,"
says the woman.

"Why not? And who are you?"

"Because that's metathinking," says the woman, "You
may know me as Pip."

"But I like metathinking," complains Eileen.

"You may like it, but such metathinking is not
appropriate in analysing the actions of characters
within the plot," says Pip. "It's like saying that
Harry doesn't tell Dumbledore about the voices in CoS
because JKR wanted the book to continue for more
chapters. That's true, but what does it tell us about
Harry? Nothing. The mechanics of JKR's deception of
the audience are not an answer to Elkins's critique of
Crouch Sr.'s redemption. So, get back there."

Eileen frowns at Pip, then nods, and returns to Elkins
and Cindy. 

"Well," she says, with a sigh, "Crouch is constrained.
And not only by the author. He's clinging to what
little sanity he has left. And he's focusing on
getting to Dumbledore, not spilling the beans to
Harry. As I've said to Cindy before." Eileen shoots a
hostile glance at Cindy, who is watching the argument
with an unconcerned and amused face. 

Elkins ignores her. "And when you look at the words
that he actually uses, at his phrasing, they reveal
that even in the midst of his passion, Mr. Crouch has
not truly changed. He's still speaking of people in
terms that deny their individuality. He speaks of them
as possessions. He asks Harry: 'You're not...his?' And
then he asks if Harry is 'Dumbledore's.' 

"I had thought Rowling meant this as a good point of
Crouch's," smirks Eileen. "Recognizing that Harry is
Dumbledore's. After all, CoS hangs on Harry's loyalty
to Dumbledore. To mention just one example."

"Perhaps," says Elkins. "He keeps giving orders.
'Don't
leave me.' 'Go get Dumbledore.' He clutches onto
Harry's
robes so tightly that Harry can't even pry him free."

Eileen stares at Elkins. "Are you all right?" she says
gently. "I don't want to disturb you or anything, but
those seem like anguished pleas for help, not
orders..." she begins to back away carefully.

"Really, he doesn't seem to appreciate the nature of
his sin at *all,* does he? No recognition at all of
where he
went wrong. No genuine repentence. I think that Crouch
Sr. is distraught because he saved his son from an
absolutely miserable death in Azkaban.  A 'stupid
thing.' Not for what he did to his son."

"I didn't read the text that way at all... Maybe it's
my sentimental side but I saw a lot more remorse there
than you did... Here's his final words. 

"Don't... leave... me!" he whispered, his eyes buling
again. "I... escaped... must warn... must tell... see
Dumbledore... my fault... all my fault... Bertha...
dead... all my fault... my son... my fault... tell
Dumbledore... Harry Potter... the Dark Lord...
stronger... Harry Potter..." 

Eileen pulls out a handkerchief and dabs her eye. "Can
you guess which word is underlined in my copy?" she
says in a choked voice. "All." She pauses to regain
her composure. "All the more remarkable if you
remember that Real Wizards Don't Apologize. Anyway,
the juxtaposition of Bertha and Barty Jr. here made me
read it as his regret at what he had done to each of
them. Regret for the wrong he had done them. "All my
fault" suggests that he was taking all the blame, not
just for enabling him to escape, but for everything
that he might be accused of regarding his son. He's
absolutely heartbroken there, and it shows."

"No, Crouch died in his sin, if you ask me. Oh, he was
just *mired* in it, Eileen. Up to his very *neck* in
hamartia. Absolutely steeped in moral error.
Positively
*choking* on perdition."

Elkins leans back with a satisfied smile on her face
and lights a cigarette. She takes a long slow drag,
exhales contentedly, then looks up to notice both
Eileen and Cindy staring at her. Her smile falters.
She sighs.

"Nah," she mutters. "Forget it. Crouch is okay. The
angels can have him."

Eileen breathes a sigh of relief. 

""In the end," Elkins says. "I always feel sorry for
everyone."

"Even Barty Crouch?"

"Yeah, even Crouch. But I still can't quite bring
myself to like him, Eileen. I'm sorry. I just can't.
He has the misfortune of being associated with all of
the things that I happen to hate the very most in the
world. Tyranny. Torture. Brainwashing. Coercion.
Narcissism. The negation of volition. Ugh. Ugh. He's
just *horrible.* And I really do have a serious, uh,
Affective Fallacy problem, let's just say, when it
comes to Crouch."

Eileen leans back, a resigned look on her face. "All
right," she says, "All right." She tries to think of
something else to say. "I do like him," she says after
a bit. 

"I feel that while the text certainly does invite us
to sympathize with Crouch there at the very end, while
he's manfully trying to undo the damage that he has
wrought, on another level I think that the text
militates against sympathy with him. Because while
Crouch the man is ultimately pitiable, and perhaps
even in his own way admirable,"

"What did Elkins just say?" whispers Cindy. 

"Crouch's role in the text is to serve as the
representative of the forces offering the temptation
that Harry must learn to resist. Crouch offers the
temptation of what is easy over what is right. It is
*easy* to surrender your will to an authoritarian
political leader. It is *easy* to allow yourself to be
dominated by the desire to serve a charismatic master,
or to impress a demanding employer, or to please a
strong father figure. It is *easy* to let your parents
protect and harbour and control you. It is *easy* to
give way to the Imperius Curse.

"But it's not right," Elkins concludes. "The text
invites our sympathy for those who have to face those
choices. But it doesn't generally invite too much
sympathy for those who *offer* the easy choices, I
don't think. It seems to me that in these books, the
powers that actually offer the easy choices
are...well, they're
usually the powers of Evil."

"Elkins," says Eileen, her heart pounding. "A very
nice summary, but if the book doesn't invite sympathy,
how come so many people read it that way. A minority
to be sure. But a substantial minority. I once thought
I was alone in my opinion, but since then I've made
sure to buttonhole anyone I'm talking HP with about
the Crouches, and a very large number of people agree
with my emotional reaction to Crouch Sr. Rather
interesting that. Almost all of them, I've found, are
younger readers. In their late teens and early
twenties. Is that the Percy dynamic, do you think? Or
is it something else? Is it the fact that some people
tend to see Crouch as not only offering the choice
between what's easy and what's right, but also facing
that choice? A man more sinned against than sinning?"

"Hardly," says Elkins.

>
>This post is continued from Part Six. It is primarily
>a response to messages #37476 (the Manifesto) and
>#45402 (Crouch Sr as Tragic Hero), but also cites or
>references message numbers 34232, 34496, 34519,
34579,
>38368, 38398, 43326, 44258, 44636.

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