[HPforGrownups] Re: SHIP: The Four Loves: Why R/Hr is preferred to H/Hr

[Eileen]

No: HPFGUIDX 50222

 --- "Jim Ferer <jferer at yahoo.com>" <jferer at yahoo.com>
wrote: > Eileen:"I think that R/Hr is also much 
better
> suited [than H/H] to
> the subversion of the romantic  paradigm.
> 
> "In the end, as much as we like to talk about 
> Avery, Snape, and
> Crouch, it?s all about Harry. What  JKR would do by
> choosing R/Hr over
> H/Hr is giving  primacy to the philos relationship
> over the eros 
> relationship."
> 
> This is about 180 degrees different from my
> thinking.  This is why:

I don't think I've made myself clear enough. I'll try
to explain, and ask you to explain some points that I
didn't find that clear. 
 
> We agree that the friendship of the Trio is founded
> on philos, and
> that all three love each other.  

<nods>

>Ron's feelings toward Hermione appear
> to be transforming from philos to eros, and I only
> can see eros gaining ascendancy. 
>Obviously that's arguable. 

Are you saying here that the philos in the R-Hr
relationship would be driven out by eros? Because
that's not only arguable, it's incomprehensible.
Friends who fall in love are still friends. Or am I
misunderstanding you? 

>What is clear is that
> Harry and Hermione's relationship is strongly based
> on philos and - I
> don't have a better word - comradeship.  They are
> connected and
> connecting in mind and purpose.

To a certain extent. I don't subscribe to any of the
trio "connecting" so well as many shippers like to
say. But I agree that the philos between Harry and
Hermione is extremely strong. 

> Their shared experience will always be the most
> intense of their
> lives.  Even if Harry and Hermione marry and have
> five kids together
> their relationship will still have its roots deeply
> embedded in the
> philos and comradeship and sharing of their quest,
> as if their names
> had been Frodo and Samantha.  Eros will not drive
> out philos.  

No, I don't think it would. Why else would I ship
R/Hr? :-) 

> Hoping that the philos remains untainted by eros is
> somehow medieval,
> a sort of the Lives of the Saints thing, and doesn't
> seem to have
> faith philos can stand the competition. 

You misunderstand me then, since I have hoped no such
thing. As noted above, I do ship R/Hr which is eros
between two *friends.* 

>Harry and Hermione are not
> being driven together by couplethinking; if they
> fall in love, it's
> because they choose it. 

Ah, and here's the root of things. My argument was
that dreaded thing known as "metathinking." (Or
whatever we're calling it now.) I am not making an
argument about Harry, Ron, and Hermione as characters
in the text, and what they want. That discussion is
engaged in by far abler minds than mine. I am making
an argument based on what a certain number of people
want the text to promote. The question is not whether
Harry or Hermione, or Ron or Hermione would be driven
together by the romantic paradigm. The question is
whether the HP series will end up promoting the
romantic paradigm. 

I don't want it to, and I realize now that much of my
shipping can be explained by my wanting to avoid
another ode to the supremacy of eros. Eros rules all
today and, therefore, I desperately want to see philos
in the absence of eros in the place of honour. R/Hr
shows us that philos coexists with eros, but most
importantly, it means that the two most important
relationships in the books to the reader: H-Hr and
H-R, are philos without a touch of eros.  

Obviously, this argument has no impact on what JKR
will actually do. It concerns what would make certain
listies most happy. 

Eileen

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