SHIP: That Darned Kiss--The Problem With Reading R/H in GoF

[Penny Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 50292

Hi --

Ebony said, with reference to the first Skeeter article which said Harry and Hermione were a couple:

> Just "ignore it" is her only suggestion for Harry. not
> vehement protest of the kind she showed at the Yule Ball, or the 
amusement 
> she's expressing at this point.  Hermione doesn't even seem 
> incredulous when faced with that first article.  She doesn't get 
> angry as she did when Ron accused her of being disloyal to Harry at 
> the Yule Ball.  Instead after that first autumn article she just 
> holds her head high and keeps right on hanging with Harry. and
> her grace under pressure is something that he admires.

Angua responded with:

<<<<Yes.  In fact, her behavior is perfectly consistent with a person who 
has nothing to hide and nothing to be embarrassed about.  Not at all 
the behavior of someone whose secret wishes have just been exposed to 
the public eye!>>>>>>

That is a good point, actually.  OTOH, as you point out, she knows it isn't true and that Harry doesn't want it to be true, so I can see where her behavior is *also* consistent with her having a secret crush on him but knowing that it's her little secret.    

The Potions Class discussion of the 2nd Skeeter Article, Angua says:

<<<<Yep.  Embarrassed yet again to be seeming to try to make him feel 
jealous, when *really* she's just trying to discuss the Rita
Skeeter problem.  It's Ron's eye she's "determinedly avoiding" in the 
blushing sentence.  That's a *clue*, folks.>>>>>>>>

Well, *of course* she's "determinedly avoiding Ron's eyes."  She *KNOWS* he likes her.  That became crystal-clear to us all on the night of the Yule Ball.  Whether she returns his feelings or whether she doesn't return his feelings but cares about him as a friend, this is exactly as I would expect her to react.  We can read this one either way, IMHO.  She's either avoiding his eye because she does return his feelings as you say ....... or, as I would say, she's avoiding his eye because she knows how he feels and knows that discussing this subject is likely to be a problem for him. 


<<<<A lot has happened since the time Ron looked at her as if seeing her in 
a whole new light.  *Then* she managed to hold off the blush for a 
few seconds.  *Now* she blushes scarlet as she says it, BEFORE he 
even starts looking at her.>>>>>>>>

Again, that's because now she is all too well aware of exactly how he feels.  Whether she suspected it before the Yule Ball or not, she can be in little doubt afterwards.  Even Clueless!Harry understands that Ron likes Hermione.  

I do have a question for Angua and other R/H'ers at this juncture actually.  JKR has made it "hit-you-over-the-head-with-a-baseball-bat" obvious that Ron likes Hermione.  Again, even Clueless!Harry understands this.  If she was definitely going for R/H, why hasn't she taken the same approach with Hermione?  Might it be because it's not going to be an easy road to end up R/H?  If it was obvious that they both liked each other, there'd be no tension or conflict, yes?  So, there will be some tension or conflict in this before it all gets resolved.  Pippin said as much yesterday (and I agree with her that we'll likely have no better handle on the Trio's feelings for each other at the conclusion of OoP than we do now, btw).  The question is: is the "tension" source going to be Krum, Harry, both, someone else entirely ....... or just Ron and Hermione being typical teenagers and unable to get their act together?  Is it even going to necessarily end up R/H?  Just because he likes her, doesn't mean he will be successful at winning her heart, and just because Ron and Hermione might date for some period of time doesn't mean that they will end up together, happily ever after for all time.  

That's the other thing I don't get about the R/H position.  JKR had an unhappy marriage with lots of "sparks" and arguments and tension.  It ended badly.  I'm not so sure that "tension and sparks" is really her cup of tea.  But, more importantly, since she's said that she wants to realistically depict these kids and their confrontation with "real" evil (not sugar-coated) and have them age believably, do you really think she'd want to send a message that teenage romance works out to be happily ever-after?  In real life, it just doesn't.    

And, back to that JKR chat where it was asked if Hermione liked Ron as more than a friend.  If it's so *obvious,* why did JKR phrase her answer that way?  When it's obvious and/or has no implications for a later plot, JKR answers chat questions with straight-forward answers ("In Gryffindor, naturally!" as one example when asked about Hagrid's house ... and Lily's house).  She's cagey, or answers a question with a question, or gives vague answers when she doesn't want to answer the question for some reason.  If we're going to open OoP and see Ron and Hermione have been dating all summer, why didn't she just say so?  She had the perfect opportunity after all.  

In her post, Angua later says:

<<<<<Since JKR said *the answer is in GoF*, you need to show proof that Hermione X-X-X-X->Ron.  We're still waiting for that.>>>>>>>

No, we needn't show a negative .... we don't have to show that Hermione *doesn't* like Ron.  We could also show that she likes someone else (say Krum .....or Harry) and prove by implication that she doesn't like Ron.  Or that he's not the only one she likes.  But, in any case, I maintain if it was obvious, JKR would have answered it that way.  If it's not obvious, there's a reason.  Whether that reason is a long and tortured path to R/H or because of FITD or because Ron/Herm will date but it won't last, well, we'll just have to wait for the remaining books (or for a more clear chat response from JKR, though I sincerely doubt she's going to give it if she hasn't already).

Back to all these blushes, Angua plowed on:

<<<<<The idea that she's blushing for Krum's sake seems very far-fetched 
to me.  She wasn't blushing at the second task, when Krum actually 
invited her to Bulgaria and told her he'd never felt like this before.>>>>

How do you know?  You weren't there.  Neither was I.  Neither was Harry.  :--)

<<<<<I  think it's pretty clear that Krum, qua Krum, is not
blush-inducing.  It's only *when talking about Krum to Ron* that the blushes come,
and then, only when she's sharing *new* information about how much
Krum likes her.>>>>>>>>>>

Again, she *knows* Ron likes her!  


<<<< And does she really think that avoiding his eye will help?  The normal, usual reason that you avoid someone's eye is that you don't want them to read *your* expression.  What is Hermione trying to hide, huh?  I think *I* know.>>>>>>>>>

Actually, you might avoid a friend's eye if you knew he had romantic feelings for you, whether you return those feelings or not.  If she *does* return his feelings, then your analysis is fine.  If she doesn't, she could just as easily be avoiding his eye because it makes her uncomfortable knowing how he feels and knowing that *eventually* she'll have to let him down.  

<<<<You do not mention R/H-shipper Snape here.  :)  Why does Snape separate *all three of them*?>>>>>>

Snape is Teacher!Snape who sees all 3 of them engrossed in conversation that does not involve potions.  Naturally, he'd separate all of them.  

<<<<Hermione acts "strangely formal" with Ron,>>>>>>>>>>

They act strangely formal with each other actually.  Ron probably laid awake, regretting how he'd made her cry, and started to sort through his feelings.  Hermione, OTOH, either does return Ron's feelings, hence the awkwardness, OR, just as plausibly, doesnt' return them but knows now for sure how he feels and knows that eventually the situation will have to be addressed.   

<<<<<You can't see me, but I'm rolling my eyes like crazy. Isn't it fun 
making up imaginary evidence?  We R/H shippers like to imagine the 
touching scenes when Hermione woke Ron up after the chess game and 
when Ron was there as Hermione woke up from being Petrified, but we 
don't usually unleash our sappy fantasies onto the unsuspecting 
general public.  I wish you would use the same restraint.>>>>>>>>>

Ron was there when Hermione woke up?  Is that canon?  I think not.

<<<<<<<What?  But we do see them - that's the whole point!  We see 
them "looking like they'd had the time of their lives," we see them 
eating ice cream, brown and freckly and talking happily of new wands 
and biting books.  We see them buying gifts for Harry together.  We 
see them playing chess and testing Ron on Astronomy and sitting in 
the best chairs in front of the fire doing star charts and munching 
on toast and marmalade in the empty Quidditch stands.  I'm not
sure  why you see this as a "myth."  Looks like plain and simple
black and white text to me.>>>>>>>>>>>>

Looks like black and white text to me too.  But, of course, what I see in that text is two teenage friends having a nice time together.  It may or may not be a precursor to romance.  Some of your shipmates have asserted that anytime Harry is not with them, Ron and Hermione are obviously off together and obviously off together having loads of fun and forming the basis for their destined romance.  Yet, these same shipmates also assert that Hermione is obviously off making strong ties with her future sister-in-law, Ginny, and that even though we don't see Ginny much, clearly she and Hermione are close buddies.  Hermione only had a time-turner for one of the 4 books, guys.  :--)

Penny

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