Where the Malfoys Live

[annemehr <annemehr@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 50558

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve <bboy_mn at y...>" 
<bboy_mn at y...> wrote:

> >  Annemehr replied:
> > 
> > You have mentioned this before, as I recall, and my thoughts on it 
> > have finally crystallized in my mind to where I can reply (but if 
> > I make any mistakes about RL fact, any Brits reading this should 
> > correct me!)  There are two points to make.
> > 
> > 1) The Malfoys are said to live in a Manor (...) .  ... a manor 
> > is a large house on a large tract of land owned by a member of the 
> > gentry (or nobility or upper class) in Britain (or, this is the 
way
> > things used  to be, under the class system).  ...  Like the Riddle 
> > House with Little Hangleton.  ...edited...
> > -end this part-
>  
> bboy_mn:
> Well my dictionary (American Heritage) would seem to agree with you. 
I
> alway took Manor to be interchangable with Mansion both of which 
would
> have a significant track to land associated with them. There are
> Mansion nieghborhoods in Beverly Hill, CA and Brentwood, CA. Despite
> being 'in town' they still, but city standards, have a large plot of
> land creating a very spacious and private back yard; grounds, 
gardens,
> pool, tennis court, etc....

Annemehr:
I found what I was thinking of in my old Webster's New World 
Dictionary (copyright 1968):

manor: 1)in England, a) in feudal times, the district over which a 
lord held authority, subject to the jurisdiction of his court; land 
belonging to a lord and partly divided among his peasants in return 
for rent of some kind, or land reserved by him for his own use. b) 
more recently, a landed estate, usually with a main residence, the 
owner of which still holds some feudal rights over the land.
2) in the United States during colonial times, a district granted as a 
manor and leased to tenants at a set rental.
3) [obs.], a) a mansion. b) the main residence on an estate. c) a 
lord's mansion with its land.

So, I think in Britain, "a manor" would imply a *very* large country 
estate.  I see it as more a technical (British) term for that kind of 
estate, rather than just a very large house (as in a "mansion").

ALTHOUGH -- just a bit further down the page --

mansion: 1) formerly, a manor house; hence, 2) a large, imposing 
house; stately residence. [snip out unrelated senses of the word]

A bit confusing, no?

<snip> 
 

> Relative to Malfoy Manor, we must remember we are dealing 
with
> a very old family with a land estate that may be many centuries old.
> So, Malfoy Manor which we now assume is on Malfoy Estate, could have
> orginally been in a somewhat rural or suburban part of the Magic 
City.
> As the centuries progress, the Magic City grew [...]... I think in a 
city, a house with a
> mansion and 8 or more city blocks of land surrounded by a high stone
> fence would come close to some definition of a manor. 
> 
> I would be more inclined to call what you are referring to a country
> estate; country estate implying not blocks of land, but acres of 
land.
> 

Yes, the "country estate" is what I had in mind when I read that the 
Malfoys lived in a "manor".  Of whatever manors there may have been 
inside modern London, I don't imagine there would be much left, not 
even in Diagon Alley, since space is so much at a premium there.

> What I'm trying to do is see if I can reconcile this so that both of
> us are right. 

Dang. I thought I did that already with my "second house in town" 
idea.  ;)

<snip>
> 
> > 2) But the upper class, besides having homes on their ancestral 
> > lands, also had houses in London, for the purposes of socializing, 
> > ...edited...
> > 
> > Annemehr
> 
> 
> bboy_mn:
> This could be right. If I recall a lot of wealthy people had
> 'townhouses' that would easly qualify as mansions themselves.
> 
> Is the anyone who is knowledgable in Brit-speak or British history
> that could tell us, if it's possible to have something that would
> qualify as a manor in London?
> 
> bboy_mn

Yeah, where *are* you guys?  All reading the SHIPping debates?

Annemehr
who will not comment on SHIPping until after finishing book 7, 
probably...