Banter/FF: After the Ball was Re: Banter and other SHIP subjects

[Penny Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 50797

Hi all --

With respect to my assertion that JKR may not have heard the term "cute meet" before or intended her PS/SS interactions to work that way, Pippin said:

<<<<<We'd have to suppose she's never read The Taming of the 
Shrew, either. Hollywood did not invent the romantic comedy. 
Elizabethan dramatists did, in 1590 or so.>>>>>>>>

That still doesn't address the issue of her *intent.*  I still say she may not have intended the effect that you see.  

On marriages resulting from teen romances, Pippin says:
 
<<<<<Maybe I'm not understanding you. If you're saying that JKR needs 
to let her characters have enough dating experience to tell the 
differences between a crush, a shallow attraction, and the Real 
Thing, then I agree with you. That process is well underway. 
Harry has  his crush on Cho and his shallow attraction to Parvati. 
Ron has a crush on Fleur and a shallow attraction to Padma. 
Hermione had a crush on Lockhart, and is now, it seems, in a 
shallow relationship with Krum, though it seems deep on his 
side. 

OTOH, If you're saying that it's necessary, for realism's sake, that  
all the  characters experience a series of  serious but 
unsatisfactory love affairs  before they settle down to a 
successful marriage, well, I and my husband of twenty-seven 
years would probably disagree. :--)>>>>>>>>>>

Well, first, I'm not saying that there aren't exceptions to every rule.  <g>  But, *in general,* the norm is not for two teenagers to only date each other and noone else and end up getting married and having it be a lasting marriage.  So, while I might buy *one* of those couples in the Potterverse (R/H *or* H/G), OBHWF just sounds incredibly, incredibly unrealistic to me.  

I will say that I *don't* think the "crushes" you've described in HP are enough dating experience to allow those characters to effectively tell the difference between infatuation or shallow attractions and real love.  Harry has no dating experience at this point.  He escorted Parvarti and he thought she looked nice.  I wouldn't even term that a shallow attraction really.  And, frankly, I've never been convinced that Ron really has a "crush" on Fleur -- I think he just is more prone to reacting to her veela charms and obviously thinks she's very attractive.  Of course, we aren't privy to his fantasies as we are with Harry, so it could well be that Ron has a similar crush on Fleur that Harry has/had on Cho.  In any case, I definitely don't think that's "enough" experience in the romance department for either of them to judge the "real thing."  I also don't think teenagers are often mature enough to follow through, even if *is* real love .....it just becomes "right person, but wrong time, wrong place."   

Pippin said:
> 
> <<<<For the first time, Harry isn't there for the  reconciliation. 
> *Something* must have happened, because one minute Ron 
> and Hermione are standing ten feet apart and screaming, and 
> the next morning--well, I'll let Harry tell it:
> 
> ====
> Ron and Hermione seemed to have reached an unspoken 
> agreement not to discuss their argument. They were being 
quite 
> friendly to each other, though oddly formal.
> =====
> 
> Oh, that 'seemed' -- that covers a multitude of assumptions, 
> doesn't it. We'd know a lot more about the status of Ron and 
> Hermione's relationship if we knew what had  *really*  
> happened. Did he apologize? Did she forgive? Did he? Did 
Ron, 
> in fact, do what Ebony accuses him of lacking the magnaminity 
> to do, and wish Hermione *bon chance*  with 
Krum?>>>>>>>>>

[snip FF examples of what might have transpired, one from the R/H viewpoint, one from the "H/H viewpoint"]

Well, your R/H scenario is *possible,* although I don't know imagine it happened that way.  I imagine more that they both stormed off, both laid in bed and thought about what had happened.  It's probably dawning on Ron by then that he *is* jealous of Krum and that he *is* interested in Hermione, but he's not ready to try and do anything about it just yet.  He's also feeling a bit intimidated by the fact that her current "beau" is his idol Quidditch star.  From Hermione's end, she is thinking that she knows for sure now that Ron has a crush on her.  Beyond that, it could go many ways, depending on how she feels in return.  In any case, I imagine they both met at the breakfast table (or in the Common Room before breakfast if you prefer).  I figure they didn't meet each other's eyes directly until later that day as things began to settle down.  I figure they just made mundane conversation in a rather formal way ("could you pass the marmalade, please?"  "Of course.  Can I get you the juice?"), and it's this that Harry observes as oddly formal (which he also interprets to mean that they *didn't* discuss the previous nights' argument).  Harry eventually bridges the gap between them and the relatioship returns to normalcy, without any conversation needing to be had. 

As for your "H/H scenario," nah, that's definitely not at *all* the way I envision it.  For one thing, I don't think Hermione is anywhere remotely that close to Ginny as a friend ......nor do I imagine she would cause a big scene in her dorm room or that she would confide in Parvarti or Lavendar about much of anything.  I also don't think it's necessary for her to dump Ron as a friend or swallow her pride.  They had a fight.  They reached an *unspoken* agreement not to speak about it anymore.  Why are there only the two alternatives in your mind: either she confronts Ron and forces him to apologize and/or discuss the situation OR she's a wimp who only tolerates Ron because she's worried about Harry?  I can't in my wildest dreams imagine that she's friends with Ron for the next 6 months just because she's worried about Harry's safety and thinks if she dumps Ron that Harry would in turn dump her.  That's not saying anything good about the strength of Hermione's *friendship* with either boy!  That is assuredly *not* the position of the H/H shippers (or at least not this one!).  

Penny



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