banter/ff: after the ball and other SHIP subjects

[Anna Hemmant]

No: HPFGUIDX 50848


Previous people have written such amazingly interesting stuff as
<<<<<Maybe I'm not understanding you. If you're saying that JKR needs to let her characters have enough dating experience to tell the differences between a crush, a shallow attraction, and the Real Thing, then I agree with you. (I agree too) That process is well underway.   I will say that I *don't* think the "crushes" you've described in HP are enough dating experience to allow those characters to effectively tell the difference between infatuation or shallow attractions and real love.   I also don't think teenagers are often mature enough to follow through, even if *is* real love .....it just becomes "right person, but wrong time, wrong place."(once again I whole-heartedly agree)Ebony accuses him of lacking the magnaminity to do, and wish Hermione *bon chance*  with Krum?>>>>>>>>> (He does seem to be particularly stubborn) 

He's also feeling a bit intimidated by the fact that her current "beau" is his idol Quidditch star.  (Well, wouldn't you?) I can't in my wildest dreams imagine that she's friends with Ron for the next 6 months just because she's worried about Harry's safety and thinks if she dumps Ron that Harry would in turn dump her.  That's not saying anything good about the strength of Hermione's *friendship* with either boy!  That is assuredly *not* the position of the H/H shippers. 

( couldn't have put it better myself. You have to remember that they've 

been friends for almost four years, and you can't put down that kind of

bond.

<pennylin at swbell.net> wrote other interesting morsels:I still don't concede that Hermione *enjoys* the bickering with Ron.....I don't think she does  

 

I really don't understand why the H/H'ers have to be made out as anti-Ron and the "villains" in any debate on this topic, Angua.  It happens that *I* don't really like Ron much at all (like Ebony, I loved him right up until about mid-way through PoA and began to actively dislike him during GoF......though because I have liked him in the past, I have every confidence that I *might* like him again). But, why don't you acknowledge that it might not ever be "resolved"?  It *might* be that: This. Is. The. Way. They. Communicate.  It might *not* be unresolved sexual tension.  I have a hard time accepting that UST is the reason they've been bickering since they met at age 11, frankly.  So, I don't think that the bickering is "masking" the UST.Ah, the ongoing debate about whether Hermione enjoys the "Exchanges" or not.  I said: > >If [JKR] continues to stress words > >like "savagely," "impatiently," "sputtered > >indignantly," "acidly," "coldly," "angrily," etc., she might give > >us  the impression that Ron and Hermione really don't interact very > >positively during their "bantering."> Derannimer responded: > This is true, Angua. JKR *does* tend to use extremely negative words > to describe the way that Hermione reacts to Ron's teasing. (Although > I think that that "savagely" actually belonged to Ron; you can > scratch that one if you like to.) But my point is that H/Hers have a > pretty objective reason for thinking that Hermione doesn't enjoy TE. > There are clues in JKR's diction and description to suggest that she > doesn't. JKR uses very negative words here. Angua gives us a list of examples of "positives" associated with "Exchanges" between Ron and Hermione.    <<<<<"I've still got ten Galleons," she said, checking her purse.  "It's my birthday in September, and Mum and Dad gave me some money to get myself an early birthday present.""How about a nice *book*?" said Ron innocently."No, I don't think so," said Hermione composedly.  "I really want an owl...."I would say 'composedly' is a positive-connotation word.>>>>>>>>Er.......*this* is Ron *trying* to interact with Hermione and her not getting it, not playing.  She's *serious*.  She totally misses his joke. 

(No she doesn't! She totally gets the point that he's teasing her, but 

she's growing up, and learning not to rise to the bait is part of that.) This is funny for the reader, but it's not really a good example of Ron and Hermione interacting.  Isn't it just one-sidedness, really? (I think 

that this is not the case. It is illustrative IMO that Hermione finally 

understands why ron is teasing her, and feels no need to stress out.)Yes, but this too is not Ron/Hermione interaction, Angua.  We're talking about the direct interaction between the two of them, not whether Hermione has or lacks a sense of humor.  I think it's clear she has a sense of humor and enjoys using it herself.  But, I don't think she's enjoying much of the Exchanges with Ron. (Ah, one of my central arguments. 

I don't think she did enjoy the 'exchanges' with Ron. Until at least Book 

three. For rest of argument, see below)So, her enjoying "proving Ron wrong" is good for a romance, *how?*  :::looks puzzled by the logic::::::: (Hermione begins to enjoy the one 

up-man-ship that exists between her and Ron. the intellectual exchange 

what gives her a thrill and, I believe, will cause her to finally cave 

in and go out with him.)the issue is not what Hermione's choice will be.  It's how Ron's choices would influence Hermione's choice.  There are a lot of possible places JKR can take Ron based on his development to date:<snip Imperius!Ron, Evil!Ron, Dead!Ron, Newly-Self-Assured!Ron>Is he really going to *always* be a roadblock to H/H in either scenario?  I'd say not.  Happens all the time.   I tend to view novels as imitative of life ..........so I'm afraid the whole "well, but this is fiction" argument doesn't hold much sway with me. (Me either)I don't know why Ron has to "concede the girl."  Why can't it just be a 14 yr old boy who had a crush on his best friend, but it never worked out?   If JKR chose *not* to ship the Trio to one another within the

four corners of the series, but to conclude it with the Trio 

as still (or perhaps again) best friends, would that not allow

us to continue to view either ship as valid?  Or any other ship?  

Or no ship?  The more I think about this, the more I think 

that would be the best possible result.  I'd still put my money on R/H, but not till the very end of the series.

 

Now, finally, me:

I'm sure it was either on Newsround or some 

equally good HP source that it was a fact that there was going

to be a canon SHIP in the new book. I can't remember if it was

Harry and Cho, or Hermione and Ron, but that's just because i'm 

dozy. I believe that Hermione and Ron will become a couple soon. 

I also think that a lot of people have been overlooking a certain 

academic rule. NB the existance of a correlation cannot determine

causation. ie just because there are a vast amount of couples that 

end up dating who squabbled when they first met does not necessarily

mean that it was a sign of unresolved sexual tension, or at least

not on both sides or at first. It can just as easily mean that 

the relationship that is formed due to two people squabbling 

can be of such a personal nature that a romantic relationship 

is often the result. I am also of the belief that Hermione and Ron are a lot more suited 

to each other than the suggested Harry and Hermione SHIP. A relationship 

with Harry, as a hero who Hermione knows to be exceptionally brave etc

would be excessively daunting on Hermione's part; she is shown to be 

quite insecure in the books (I won't illustrate this point for reasons 

of angry people with full mailboxes here, but if anyone disagrees,

I will be happy to) and Ron, as an insecure youngest brother,

has more patience with her insecurity as she does with his (as

in the fight between Harry and Ron and Hermione's pleas to 

Harry)

 

I have been inactive for quite some time, and may be more than

a little rusty, but i'm sure I can trust everyone interested in 

this thread to pull my theories apart and throw them to the dogs 

if necessary. Hiya everybody! Can I please take this opportunity 

to illustrate how much I am in excited anticipation about the

book news by still mentioning it!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Anna





The thin man had stepped out of the cauldron, staring at Harry ... and Harry stared back at the face that had haunted his nightmaresfor three years. Whiter than a skull, with wide, livid scarlet eyes, and a nose that was as flat as a snake's with slits for nostrils ... Lord Voldemort had risen again.


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