SHIP: Authorial intent, Hermione's Secrets, and Ron's Problems

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 50853

I said:

> There are a lot of possible places JKR can take Ron based on his development to date:
> 
> <snip Imperius!Ron, Evil!Ron, Dead!Ron, Newly-Self-Assured!Ron>
> 
And Penny protested:

> I think you've skipped a few though.  

> 
> 5.  Ron and Hermione date.  It's either successful but not entirely satisfactory (not "the real thing" and this is evident to both parties at some point), so they break up amicably .......or it's not successful and they break up either amicably or not so amicably.  

Yes, this is a big plank in my eye.  In my view, this is unlikely to happen, but I'm swimming against a very large tide, since scenario this seems to be assumed by both the R/Hers and the H/Hers, one side to show they are suitable, the other so they'll realize they're not.  So I should not have left it out.

There are at least three reasons I don't expect this to happen.  The first is my Passive!Ron (leading to Imperius!Ron) theory.  Ron doesn't take any initiative for himself, and pursuing Hermione would require him to demonstrate a degree of pursuit of a goal that we haven't seen so far from him. I pretty much agree with the veela analysis of Ron's interactions with Fleur which Star Opal set forth in message 50823.  I think it fits with the other evidence we've seen that he doesn't take the lead on anything except chess.  As Star Opal points out, the scenes are described to infer that Ron wasn't really interested in Fleur but was simply overcome whenever he saw her close up.  Other than Fleur, he made no effort to find himself a partner -- it was Harry who arranged for him to go with Padma.  Veela charm is a bit like the Imperius Curse, I think.  At any rate, I see Ron's unwillingness to engage in self-help as preventing him from approaching Hermione at least until the Imperius!Ron subplot plays itself out.   (Yes, that's one of my favorite theories.)

Second, and this is probably my own interpretation interfering again, but I do read a bit of meaning into Harry's observation that "Ron and Hermione seemed to have reached an unspoken agreement not to discuss their argument," i.e., they said some things the previous night that they were not prepared to say and they're shutting the door on all of the implications of what they may have said.  It's very uncharacteristic of them not to play an argument out.  As I believe I said earlier, if I were them I would be very wary of pursuing a relationship with a war going on in which our cooperation would be essential.  

Third, I have problems envisioning the Trio working well together after a failed R/H romance, and in the end they will have to work together like a well-oiled machine.  So to me, a failed relationship also is an indicator of an Evil!Ron or Dead!Ron ending.

I have to admit, though, that most of the shippers disagree with me on the first point, and the H/H shippers disagree with me on the other two points as well, so I'll reiterate what I said earlier that while Ron and Hermione could split up in this fictional world without the ending being unsatisfactory, Hermione can't drop Ron for Harry during the course of the series, no matter how amicably one paints the split-up, if Ron is to become SelfAssured!Ron.  
> 
> 6.  Hermione rejects Ron, and Ron pines after Hermione for a time..........and then realizes that he just had a crush after all.  He gets on with his life, and could follow any of your scenarios, but most probably Newly-Self-Assured!Ron.  
> 
> Is he really going to *always* be a roadblock to H/H in either scenario?  I'd say not.  Happens all the time.   I tend to view novels as imitative of life ..........so I'm afraid the whole "well, but this is fiction" argument doesn't hold much sway with me.  
> 

Obviously my argument does not wash in the real world, where many things are left unresolved.  But the real world also has a much larger cast of characters to deal with, whereas the universe JKR has created has a marked lack of suitable female characters, at least to date.  As a result, I think it's far more likely that JKR will kill Ron off (and if she does, it would be well foreshadowed) than leave him onstage at the end on the outside of the H/H partnership, which is why I left it out.  

I also agree that novels -- at least good ones that I would want to read -- imitate life in that I require characters I can imagine existing in the real world doing things I would do in the real world.  JKR, however, isn't writing a slice-of-life novel.  She's borrowing bits and pieces from multiple genre and part of her genius is her ability to do that while writing believable characters that we care about.  One place I think she's done a bit of her borrowing is Jane Austen.  Many of her romantic heroes need to mature in their understanding of themselves (Darcy, Wentworth) before they are deemed worthy by the heroine.  She also has her share of cads who never grow up, all of whom are left with poor choices (Mrs Elton, anyone?) but the men that mature or that recognize their errors (Edward and Edmund) are always rewarded by the heroine.  Wherever JKR is going, I do feel confident that she won't end up with SelfAssuredbutAlone! Ron unless she also ends up with StandingAloneHero!Harry.  

On the other hand, assuming JKR is pursuing a ship-the-trio angle (and I'm not convinced she is), there are many Austen variations she could use.  There's the Emma version with Harry as Knightley (in which Ron would have to end up dead or disgraced) or Pride and Prejudice with Ron as Darcy (or even Draco!), or Sense and Sensibility with Hermione and Ginny as Elinor and Marianne.  Once I even suggested that JKR might use a Mansfield Park parallel, with Ginny as a Fanny Price who needs to grow up in the crucible of adversity before Harry will notice her.  Nevertheless, I think the Austen influence is there and that if JKR chooses to carry the romance subplot through to the end of the series, the characters who grow and mature will be rewarded.  I don't believe JKR will reject it in favor of "slice of life." 

> What about: Ron winning the struggle with himself but not winning Hermione's heart .....no romances in the Trio during canon....... but an eventual turn to H/H years later (my personal favorite)?  I don't know why Ron has to "concede the girl."  Why can't it just be a 14 yr old boy who had a crush on his best friend, but it never worked out?  He doesn't have to turn evil or die for H/H to work IMO.

Why does he have to concede the girl?  Why does Harry have to get the girl?  How about if nobody gets the girl?
     

> <<<<<One final thought on David's "two valid endings."  If JKR chose *not* to ship the Trio to one another within the four corners of the series, but to conclude it with the Trio as still (or perhaps again) best friends, would that not allow us to continue to view either ship as valid?  Or any other ship?  Or no ship?  The more I think about this, the more I think that would be the best possible result.>>>>>>>>>
> 
>
> Yes, absolutely!  I can definitely buy that.  And, assuming all the Trio are still alive, it certainly does just allow the shippers to find their own valid endings (though, of course, an epilogue could put JKR's imprimatur on one >ship or the other or no-ship).  
> 
It would be fine to put H/H in the epilogue, but if she does, she has to find someone for Ron, too.  After all, Harry *did* predict it.  ("hang on, that means 'great happiness' . . . so you're going to suffer but be very happy.") 

Debbie
feeling a sudden urge to pick up an Austen novel

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