[HPforGrownups] SHIP: Banter and other SHIP subjects

[Falcon]

No: HPFGUIDX 50872




  Howdy all, 

  I've been lurking here for the past few months, but never really wanted to respond to anything. I was hoping that Penny or Ebony, or Derannimer would take care of this, but since they haven't posted yet, I felt I should say something.  I'm a die-hard H/Hr, and even if JKR does R/Hr in canon, I will still be an H/Hr. I read the FAP, and the SugarQuill, and it amuses me that so many people are so concerned with what will make Ron happy. This is Harry's story, he is the one that we are supposed to want the best for, not Ron. I don't like Ron much, because I see in him so many of the guys I went to school with. Anyhoo, on to my post.

  Angua:
  >The fact that their exchanges are often humorous is, I think, more 
  >important TO THE READER than it is to Ron and Hermione.  We readers 
  >(are supposed to) like seeing Ron and Hermione interact, because it 
  >creates humor, which most readers like.  But they don't just create 
  >humor by zinging each other, though that is part of it.  They also 
  >create humor by a kind of quick-fire back-and-forth talking, as in 
  >the "really break your leg" example and the "bless you" example.  JKR 
  >is giving them comic timing, and it gives the reader the impression 
  >that Ron and Hermione are a good couple, because we enjoy reading 
  >that kind of stuff.  In other words, I consider the fact that their 
  >interchanges are humorous as evidence of author intention, rather 
  >than thinking that they'll fall in love because they make beautiful 
  >comedy together.

  Me: 
  See, I don't see their interaction as humorous at all. The only humor I see is when Hermione puts Ron in his place. He tries to "zing" her, but she usually reacts with a superior air, or a "haughty" tone.

  Angua>
  >Now, it may seem that I'm just a crazed shipper here, overanalyzing 
  >what is meant to be an unimportant relationship between two minor 
  >characters.  But that can't be, because JKR herself spends so 
  >incredibly much space on their interactions.  She shows Ron and 
  >Hermione talking to each other ALL THE TIME.  She has set them up 
  >with all sorts of conflicts -- cat/rat, house-elves, Harry-going-to-
  >Hogsmeade, superstition/scepticism, rules/fun, etc. etc. etc.  Now, 
  >some of this is a literary device, to externalize and personalize the 
  >inner conflicts in Harry's mind (angel-on-the-shoulder style).  But 
  >it has also had the effect of greatly developing and elaborating the 
  >relationship between these two characters, and making it a 
  >relationship we care about.

  Me> I have to disagree here. I believe that all Trio Shipping should be analyzed from the viewpoint of what is best for Harry. Ron's feelings do not concern me in the least. All I care about is how Harry and Hermione get together. If Ron's feelings get trampled, then so be it. After GoF, I can't bring myself to care much about the boy. On a separate note, I did discover in GoF that Harry is no longer short, but rather he is average height. It's in the Divination class, where Trelawney says, "your dark hair and mean stature." Mean means average, and stature refers to height. I looked it up in three different books just to make sure.

  Angua>
  >Yes, and I will cite them.  But I do want to emphasize that Hermione 
  >can enjoy the sparring, ON THE WHOLE, even though she doesn't enjoy 
  >it every single moment.  For instance, just dumbly, she can enjoy it 
  >when she's winning, and not enjoy it when she's losing.
  >
  >But let me move on to my evidence:
  >
  >1 - She starts it.  The first "zinger" that is said by either Ron or 
  >Hermione after they become friends is said by Hermione ("very safe, 
  >as they're both dentists" PS/SS Ch.12).  There is no characterization 
  >of Hermione's tone here, but, ummm, if not for enjoyment, why else 
  >would she do it?  Ron hasn't insulted her or anything -- he just made 
  >a helpful suggestion.

  Me> It didn't seem like she was trying to make a joke, rather she was simply commenting on her parents' occupations.

  Angua>
  >3 - She keeps her cool when Ron does it (PoA. Ch. 4):
  >
  >"I've still got ten Galleons," she said, checking her purse.  "It's 
  >my birthday in September, and Mum and Dad gave me some money to get 
  >myself an early birthday present."
  >
  >"How about a nice *book*?" said Ron innocently.
  >
  >"No, I don't think so," said Hermione composedly.  "I really want an 
  >owl...."
  >
  >I would say 'composedly' is a positive-connotation word.

  Me> "Composedly" is aside from a few definitions that don't apply here, "to make calm or tranquil." She is responding to Ron's comment with a very calm statement. There is no reason to get upset by his remark.

  Angua>
  >Obviously, she didn't enjoy that last bit, when Ron turned the tables 
  >on her and got under her skin with a personal jibe.  But I would 
  >claim the words 'calmly,' 'airily,' 'in a superior tone,' 
  >and 'coolly' as having definite positive connotations.  Plus, you 
  >can't tell me she didn't enjoy making Ron "mouth wordlessly"!
  >
  >That whole passage gives me a positive feeling, and I can't believe 
  >Hermione didn't enjoy it.  It is the normal friendly banter (oops! I 
  >mean, ummm, Exchanges) between friends.  She started it, too -- 
  >jumping on Harry's remark.  And I see both "briskly" and "haughtily" 
  >as positive-connotation words in this context.

  Me> Okay, this is what brought me out of the woodwork. I have to say that these descriptions of how Hermione is talking are not generally regarded as positive in connotation. In fact, they seem very negative to me. I can't speak for everyone else, but if someone addressed me in a "superior tone", I would be greatly annoyed. Because, if they are speaking in a "superior tone" then that means that they think they are smarter than I.  Using your quotes, "In a superior tone" shows that she doesn't think very much of Ron's intelligence. "Coolly" shows that she is indifferent to what he said. But my personal favorite, is this one. "Haughtily" as a positive connotation. "Haughtily" means "vain to the point of arrogance." Hermione is arrogant about her intelligence, and if she is speaking in a "haughty" manner, she is basically putting her nose in the air and speaking "down" to the other person. Basically, "haughty" cannot be positive no matter how it's written.


  Falcon


   

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