[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape's rationality

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 51060

I hope I get the attributions right; this is a very involved thread. I think
actually they're all Scott. Loads of stuff has been snipped; I just
responded to the stuff that struck me.

> Anyway, seeing that Dumbledore trusts Snape, where I doubt many others
> would, I don't think he has a right to question Dumbledore's decision to
> hire a werewolf.

I think he does. Snape does not carry an incurable disease that carries a
horrible secondary effect of complete social ostracization. Lupin does.
Lupin is a danger physically, socially, irrevocably, to the children's
entire future and life. Snape may be a traumatic emotional experience
necessitating therapy, but it is not the dead-end road that lycanthropy is.

<re: Shrieking Shack>
> Look, I don't care if it's from Harry's point of view or Ghandi's.  A
> thousand lawyers couldn't argue that Snape was in total control of his
> senses if they had a thousand years.

Yes they could. They're lawyers. They don't have to be right.

Snape was not in total control of himself. However, I will argue that his
lack of control *was* based on a completely reasonable interpretation of the
situation. Incorrect, but totally reasonable given the facts Snape
possessed. And those facts did seem to be complete, and not only to Snape;
he was not doing a whole lot of jumping.

I'll never say Snape wasn't delighted to be in the position he was in--he
*was*--but he also firmly believed he was *right,* with good reason.

> Snape however, is so enraged, he won't even
> listen to the facts.

Not precisely true. Snape already *knows* the facts, or he thinks he does.
What Snape is doing is refusing to listen to a possible alternate
interpretation, for what (from his point of view) are some very good
reasons.

> I don't care what Snape's situation is; he LOSES HIS MIND.  He gives no
one
> a chance to explain anything, and threatens to have Sirius killed without
> ever giving Sirius a chance to explain himself, simply because of his
hate.
>
> I can say that the only way you would have behaved similarly in that part,
> is if you also happened to harbor an intense hatred for Sirius, Lupin and
> Harry.

Also recall. Snape, like Dumbledore, belongs to the Anti-Exposition League.
We do not know much of what he's thinking. But we *do* know that he knows
that Lupin didn't take his potion that night and will at some point become a
werewolf. He does not bother to say this (from a plot point of view, he
*can't* because it would spoil the scene later), but I'm sure that pressure
of time was an operating factor in his impatience.

He also knows that Sirius is a wizard to be reckoned with. He has absolutely
no reason *not* to believe his version of the facts, which is complete if
wrong. He also has no desire to stand there and talk with a very powerful
and (he believes) dangerous and (he believes) homicidal wizard who (he
believes) is intent on killing one of the children in the room and (he
believes) would not stop at killing all the rest to achieve that end. Snape
is in a very, very dangerous situation (he believes) and although he does it
with very little grace, he is legitimately trying to address a very
dangerous situation, protecting three children who are not appreciative in
the slightest from a situation which (he believes) they don't understand. He
was also frustrated beyond belief that the children refused to realize their
danger or acknowledge his authority (or risk to himself in being there to
help them), which also added to his fury.

Given all of that, I'd be a little on the stressed side myself. Adding old
antipathy to the mix surely didn't help. So I have never honored Snape for
his behavior in the Shack, but I've also never blamed him for it. He was
acting consistent with the facts as he knew them and taking action to remedy
the situation as he saw it.

> Snape does NOT treat Harry fairly; I KNOW I've already made this argument
> elswhere, but Snape is especially difficult on Harry, while letting
> Slytherins (specifically Draco) get away with murder.  This by definition
is
> unfair.

Who said Snape treated Harry fairly? And even if they did, um, so what if he
doesn't? Nobody promised fair. I think Harry will come to appreciate the
ultimate effect of Snape's attitude--for Harry does not expect fair from
him, and he learns to handle adversity and deal with it. Draco has learned
nothing except how to sponge and whine. Who will be the better prepared in
the next Voldemort years?

> PS: I've noticed some 'Snape and Respect' posts popping up.  I'd just like
> to say one thing- I think that people should be given the benefit of the
> doubt; you lose your  respect for a person when they show that they no
> longer deserve your respect.  Now, if after 4 books, you still think Snape
> deserves Harry's respect... well, then you must be a very, erm...
> 'respectful' person.

It goeth both ways. In one instance at least, Snape deserved Harry's thanks.
When motives had been clarified for Harry at the end of PS, and he realized
that Snape had been working to *save* his life--and did, by delaying
Quirrel's hex until Hermione's action ended it--he does nothing. I don't
care how much I think someone hates me. I don't care how much I hate them.
If they saved my life, I'm letting them know I appreciate it. That Harry
does not at the very least simply acknowledge, to Snape, an awareness of
Snape's efforts (including refereeing a Quidditch match to protect him
further) has always rather surprised and disappointed me.

So Harry has also not particularly merited Snape's respect, either. From
Snape's viewpoint, Harry *has* broken rules and gotten away with it, and
made the most of it. He's also demonstrably ungrateful, a perception further
borne out by Harry's refusal to, at the very least, simply acknowledge that
Snape was trying to save him in the Shack.

Snape is the sort who bestows respect where he sees it earned. Up to this
point, Harry has not earned it. However, I believe Snape is also honest with
himself, and I believe he will accord respect even to someone he dislikes if
they meet his own internal criteria. I think that different look they
exchange at the end of book 4 may be a dawning of respect for Harry, as well
as finally seeing Harry as himself and not mini-James.

Just a few thoughts.

~Amandageist, Snapologist