House points and Dumbledore

[Grey Wolf <greywolf1@jazzfree.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51131

Tom Wall wrote:
> In fact, 
> the first time that I read PS/SS, I thought that 
> the stone's protections were pretty lame, and that
> anyone could have gotten through them.

Not anyone. I doubt Any other three students of first year could've 
passed it, for one thing. Crabbe, Goyle and Draco wouldn't pass them 
*ever*, in fact.

> -The trio did zero to beat Fluffy, as not only did 
> Hagrid gave them the answer, but they didn't even 
> have to strum an out-of-tune guitar, 'cause Quirrell 
> had already taken care of it for them via enchanted 
> harp.  

MEEEC! Movie contamination! The trio used the flute that Harry got from 
Hagrid for Christmas to get past Fluffy, because "he didn't feel like 
singing".

Besides, there you have the example of a difficult to pass obstacle: 
you had to get Hagrid to tell you the secret (OK; easy once you knew 
Hagrid's debilities, but Fluffy itself is something to take into 
account).

> -Recognizing Devil's snare should be no big deal for 
> any experienced wizard, so no great shakes there.

You don't -and can't- know that. Hermione read about it in Herbology, 
and that means that it's not part of the class, but something extra she 
was reading just for the kicks. (Assuming you know nothing of Computer 
Science), I could give you a question on Computer Science, with an 
answer that can be found in first year books and that almost no-one 
could answer (yes, I have something specific in mind, but its besides 
the point). Hermione learns things just for fun - just because she 
knows about it doesn't mean it's common knowledge. In fact, I assume 
that Devil Snare is not well known at all - doesn't seem your everyday 
garden plant.

> -They didn't even have to really think to figure out 
> what key opened the door, since the wings on the 
> correct key were already broken by Quirrell when he 
> went through the first time.  All Harry had to do 
> was use his eyes and a minor bit of logic. Actually,
> I'm much more interested in figuring out how Quirrell
> found that key.

The trick wasn't knowing which key was the one, but *catching* it. 
Harry only manages because he is "the youngest seeker in a century". 
This is not an obstacle of knowledge, but of ability - as it should be, 
since if you only task intelligence all intelligent people could pass 
the obstacles, while this way, you reduce the number of people capable 
of passing.

> -The only serious skill involved, as far as I'm 
> concerned, 

Escuse me? would you be able to pass all the other things? A logical 
puzzle, a giant three headed dog, an obscure plant knowledge and - just 
for getting this into the real world - a motorcycle race? Chances are 
that you would fail in at least one, and after all it only takes one. 
All the obstacles challenge a different thing, and it takes a rare 
individual to have the abilities to pass all of them, which is what was 
intended, after all.

> was Ron's chess game.  And even *that's* 
> ridiculous, that he could beat McGonagall, if chess 
> is indeed, a strength of hers.  Unless JKR wants us 
> to somehow believe that at eleven years old, Ron 
> Weasley is a magical Bobby Fischer. <contrived>

Why couldn't he be? I've known some very good chess players, even at 
young ages, that could beat experienced players, even when playing at a 
disadvantage. You're assuming that *McGonagall* is the Gary Kasparov of 
the WW, and it doesn't have to be - besides, we don't know the sort of 
intelligence the pieces have. If they work like a computer AI chess 
program, the ability of the creator has little to do with the end 
result. For all we know, McGonagall just borrowed the chess pieces of a 
friend that hadn't trained them well.

But, beyond that, I do believe that Ron is a great strategic mind, and 
that his abilities will not only be revealed in the future books, but 
that they will prove decesive in the upcoming battle.

> -And, for all his bravery (give credit where credit 
> is due, I say,) Harry's victory was also pretty 
> lame.  He didn't, after all, really *DO* anything, 
> unless you consider "being" to be action, which some 
> do, to be comprehensive in my coverage. Quirrell died 
> as a result of Harry's special protection, and 
> Voldemort *wasn't* that stong anyways.  Harry basically 
> just stood there and held on.

No, what is *really* amazing of the battle is that Harry stood his 
ground when faced with the most feared being of his entire universe. A 
creature so vile that people fear to pronounce his name. A creature 
that, even debilitated, was armed - standing your ground before someone 
armed with a gun its a victory in itself. Surviving to tell the tale, 
even if you *were* helped in the end like in Harry's case only adds to 
the victory. After all, in a fight to death the only thing that matters 
is to be the one walking away from it at the end.

You also say that Voldemort wasn't so powerful - that is not true. 
Quirrellmort was more than powerful enough to finish off a 11 year old. 
Harry was hopelessly outchallenged, and, yes, his protection saved him, 
but Harry had (1) to stand his ground instead of pasing away or falling 
into panic (which is worth the points alone) (2) Realise that it was 
his skin that was protecting him (not an easy thing to do when tumbling 
around with a mortal enemy and a splitting headache and (3) act upon 
that knowledge. I can't believe you write Harry's amazing victory and 
guts as "lame".

> And for *that*, Dumbledore awarded Gryffindor enough 
> points to win the House Cup? Hogwash.

Wrong. They did not receive the points for passing the obstacles. As 
has been explained already, Ron received points for *willingly 
sacrifying himself during the chess match*. That is what makes it the 
most amazing chess game in the history of Hogwarts. Winning is 
commonplace in chess. Doing so by sacrifying yourself is much more 
difficult, and worthy of points.

Hermione: you seem to have conveniently forgotten Hermione's challenge 
when putting them down. The fact is that we have been told that most 
wizards wouldn't be able to handle logic - which is reasonable, since 
their world revolves around magic, which is inherently chaotic (i.e. 
ilogical). Hermione is given points for fine thinking, which is her 
strong, just as Ron was given points for selfless acting.

And finally, Harry was given points for standing his ground against 
Voldemort, something I *know* most wizards (and, if we find a suitable 
RL example, most humans) wouldn't do.

And that, Tom, is worth the 160 points.

> In fact, if anyone has any canon on this, I'd appreciate it, since I 
> can't find anything, anywhere, to indicate exactly how winning the 
> Hogwarts "Quidditch Cup" relates to winning the Hogwarts "House Cup."
> 
> -Tom

Canon for you: "The house of Gryffindor, in big measure thanks to his 
espectacular participation in the Quidditch Cup, had won the House Cup 
for the third consecutive year" (PoA, Sp. Ed., last chapter).

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf