[HPforGrownups] Who's more out of line? (WAS: Snape and respect)

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 51182

On 30 Jan 2003 at 17:01, Tom Wall thomasmwall at yahoo.co wrote:

> For everyone who got so upset over Snape's treatment of Hermione: 
> were you equally upset when Crouch/Moody turned Malfoy into a ferret 
> and started bouncing him around? 

Interesting question.

I'm not sure I was equally upset. But I certainly think that 'Moody's' actions were 
unacceptable in a teacher.

> Were you as shocked and angry as McGonagall, or, like Ron, did you 
> think it was farily amusing? I bet that some of us even thought that 
> Malfoy *deserved* it, didn't we?

Yes, I most certainly did think that Malfoy deserved it. But whether or not Malfoy 
deserved it is an irrelevancy. Whether he deserved it or not, 'Moody' had a duty *not* to 
do it.

A teacher's responsibilities do not just come down to what the child deserves. There's a 
lot more involved in that. A couple of times in my childhood, I probably 'deserved' a 
punch in the mouth for things I said to my teachers - that didn't give them any right to do 
it.

> IMHO, if we want to be technical, this is a far more serious and  
> grievous offense, and it's a total betrayal of the relationship 
> between teacher and student. Far worse, at any rate, than letting a 
> cruel remark out. 

IMHO, yes, and no. I think it depends on how you look at it.

It's probably true that what 'Moody' did had far more potential to harm Malfoy than what 
Snape did to Hermione. I'm not sure that is certain (not given the miraculous healing 
methods available at Hogwarts) but I think it probably is.

*But* I think 'Moody' may have acted out of instant and impulsive rage. What Snape did 
was cold and deliberate, after a pause.

Acting out of rage is certainly something a teacher should *never* do. They should have 
more self control, and if they don't there is a real problem. But personally, I consider an 
act of impulsive rage (though still unacceptable) to be, in many cases, far more 
forgiveable than a deliberate act of cruelty. And if you look back to my first post in the 
Snape and Respect thread, you can see I made reference to this ("The pause in which 
he looked at her, means it can't be dismissed as spur of the moment - it was  deliberate 
cruelty.")

Snape's remark was not a spur of the moment phrase that just slipped out. It came after 
cold, hard deliberation. It was deliberately cruel. It wasn't impulsive.

What 'Moody' did was, IMHO, certainly unacceptable in a teacher. But I think there is a 
real question as to how calculated it was. In Snape's case, there wasn't.
 
> And don't try to argue that it wasn't Moody anyways: *we* didn't know 
> that when it happened. 
> 
> Yet somehow I bet that most of us here still thought it was 
> uproariously funny.

Yes, I did.

I *love* seeing a bully punished. I was the victim of severe bullying at school, severe 
enough it almost killed me, and I *applaud* any case where I see a bully getting his. 
That doesn't stop me knowing that it shouldn't be happening, at the same time as I 
applaud the fact that it is.

Let me put it this way. I'm a firm believer that many bullies (not all - I work in the area, 
and I know that bullying is a complex thing that we can't make universal assumptions 
about) should be severely punished. I am a firm believer in corporal punishment for 
many bullies. I think that should be legal.

But if I saw a teacher hit a child for bullying, and I knew that it was illegal, I would stop 
that teacher doing it by any means necessary. Because no matter what my personal 
feelings are, a teacher has an absolute duty to obey every rule in existence when it 
comes to dealing with kids. My personal feelings, and the teachers personal feelings, 
are utterly irrelevant - the fundamental duty of care comes before emotion.

What 'Moody' did was absolutely unacceptable, if for no other reason, than we know he 
has been told by Dumbledore that Transfiguration is not to be used as a punishment. He 
knows he's not allowed to do it. He still did it. He crossed the line. It doesn't matter if he 
(or I) think the lines in the wrong place - he doesn't have that right.

Yes, I thought it was funny. Like Ron, I want the image of Draco Malfoy, the amazing 
bouncing ferret in my memory for ever.

It was funny. It was also totally unacceptable.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in
common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts. They alter
the facts to fit the views. Which can be uncomfortable if you happen
to be one of the facts that need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who:
The Face of Evil | Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia