Oh, just loads of Snape stuff, from the many threads

[Amanda Geist]

No: HPFGUIDX 51216

Just this once, to shock everyone, I will combine posts. I can't do it too
often or next they'll start expecting me to be *polite* or tolerate the
Snape-is-a-vampire theory or something.

Pippin said, re: a possible reason for Snape's behavior towards Hermione of
the teeth:

As to all that goes on in Snape's head I couldn't begin to guess, but I will
submit a  LOLLIPOPS apologia for Snape's behavior in this scene. He has once
again arrived just too late to prevent a Muggle-born witch from taking a
curse meant for Harry Potter.

Me:
Ah, Pippin, you know my leanings, but I can't give you this one. Snape is
cold and matter of fact. I don't get any vibes of this sort from this scene.
I think he's just being, as someone pithily put it, a right bastard.

The lovely and usually silent Jo Serenadust said:

I was upset by Snape's treatment of Hermione and can't see how anyone can
justify Snape's behavior in this case. Although I find Snape an interesting
character,  I can never regard him as a good teacher (or decent human being,
for that matter) because of his treatment of Hermione and Neville.

Me:
Jo, do not, and none of you should, confuse justification with explanation.
I do not justify what he said/did. I try to *explain* it. And while my
explanations of the intricate tickings of Snape's psyche "fit" to me, at no
point would I say that what he did was appropriate. I can get to
understandable. But don't think I approve.

Scott said, re: who's more out of line:

Look, the facts are

Snape is cruel to Hermione for no real reason.

Crouch!Moody is cruel to Draco because he was in violation of school rules,
in a very serious manner.

Me:
Those are *some* of the facts. I maintain that the personal agendas/past
histories of both men have much more to do with their actions in both these
cases than anything that the students did.

I think Snape is cruel to Hermione because (a) he doesn't like her because
she's Harry's friend, and as such, is subject to the same projection he
applies to Harry (i.e., she is one of James' friends); (b) he really is not
emotionally engaged on the level where any sort of insult is anything to
really give a second thought to; and a wide range of possible (c)s. Like
because she's Muggleborn (note how often he picks on Hermione particularly,
and how seldom he actually picks on Ron), or because she *is* a good student
and for whatever reason, he cannot teach or foster this oasis of talent in
the desert of regular students (whether because it would damage a "cover" or
because his emotional projection prevents him, or some other reason)--he
resents her for being, at the same time, talented and *not* someone to which
he can impart what he clearly *is* passionate about.

All that said, Snape had loads of motive behind what he said, that had
absolutely nothing to do with what actually happened in the hallway. He
asked, but he did not really care to listen. He was on autopilot.

Okay. Moody. To quote you from above because I digressed on Snape (how
unusual, that): "Crouch!Moody is cruel to Draco because he was in violation
of school rules, in a very serious manner."

Again, you discount the man's personal agenda. This is a Death Eater who
lives and breathes to bring his master back so that master can seriously
kick the asses of all the other Death Eaters who have *not* spent years
being controlled by their own fathers and imprisoned in their own houses.
Revenge. All things are for that goal. And here's Draco, son of Lucius, who
has spent every night since Voldemort fell, free in his manor house eating
gourmet food prepared by house-elves and sleeping between gently warmed
sheets and NOT SEARCHING FOR HIS MASTER.

I may be wrong, but I believe that this incident was one of the first, if
not the first, times Crouch!Moody speaks to or sees Draco. Crouch!Moody must
have been *delighted* that Draco gave him the opportunity to do this to him.
He may even (I postulate without a shred of evidence) have Imperiused Draco
to cast the curse in the first place--perhaps there was a very good reason
Draco missed at that range, he was being directed to--giving himself a
chance to inflict pain on the son of Lucius. This would serve a purpose,
too, as well as being fun--his master does not, after all, need Draco, and
Draco is a possible danger to Harry and should be controlled or subdued from
the outset. Moody's skill leans to Imperius. But I digress again.

My point is, that Moody may be better at playing the scenario logically, but
I think he also had loads of motive behind what he did, that had absolutely
nothing to do with what actually happened.

Set aside for a moment whatever roles or responsiblities you attach to the
term "teacher" (for depending on your point of view, it can cover everything
from surrogate parent to simple imparter of information). In both these
instances, and in most cases, we can't be judging either of these men on
their merits as teachers, because neither man is there primarily to be a
teacher. Snape is at Hogwarts for some reason or other--his own protection
is the usual theory--but it's clear that it's not due to a burning desire to
teach. His teaching is passing the time until the crisis for which he and
Dumbledore have been preparing arises. And Crouch!Moody is also at Hogwarts
for a primary reason that has nothing to do with teaching, and his teaching
also is simply passing the time until his own preparations are ready. So
there is no question (and no surprise) that neither behaved appropriately
for a teacher; they each did, however, behave consistently with their
characters and their own internal priorities.

Oryomai said:

Snape is alot more complex than everyone is giving him credit for. But to
understand, you can't read the books from the "Yeah! Go Harry!" cheerleader
POV.  You have to read objectively (yeah AP English!).  If you can't believe
that some things are more than what they seem, that's when *I* think you're
reading the wrong book.

Me:
I beg your pardon. Not one word, not one action, not one gesture, not one
lifted eyebrow or intonation of voice by Snape in any of these books can be
put down solidly to one motive. Every single thing he does or says has
totally valid, completely different interpretations. Nothing associated with
Snape has ever been explained fully; we've just been given hints of parts of
it; he's potentially one of the most complex literary figures I've come
across. Snape discussions are *rife* with hairsplitting in a vain attempt to
solidly *give* the man a clear and simple motive for anything. If we've been
reading the wrong book, you have clearly been reading the wrong list.

And lastly, Scott, dear, I really want to give your response on rationality
the thought (and rereading of that chapter) that it deserves, and so I hope
to get to it this weekend.

~Amandageist, probably no longer premier but still Snapologist

P.S.--To the best of my recollection I coined the term Snapologist, as for
the longest time I was the loudest (read: most obnoxious) Snape apologist
and the words merged to yield a pleasing double meaning. I believe
Porphyria, Marina, and Gwen (off the top of my head, and doubtless
forgetting several) are also Snapologists. Unlike L.O.O.N., this title can
be assumed, but you must be prepared to defend your positions, postulates,
theories, beliefs, and references. Liking Alan Rickman is optional but a
good indication of your breeding and taste.