[HPforGrownups] Re: OoP: What Snape is really doing out there...

[pjuel13 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 66259

Irene says:
>Well, it's a question of chicken and egg, I'm afraid. :-)
>She would not, but then Sirius would not request it.

And you know this how exactly? Could you point me to the paragraph I missed? 

>He said "Sit down, Potter". Does not get more neutral than that.
Hmm, well Black seemed to take it as an order, as did Harry. But then of 
course their perceptions must be imediately discounted. 

>Excuse for what? He talks to Harry in a perfectly civil and professional 
>way.
In what disfunctional workplace does a "sneer curling one's mouth" (US ed pg 
518_ indicate civility and professionalism? 

>Sirius throws in his face the fact that it's his house, and from Snape's 
>reaction there is something bigger behind it.
Oh, so only Sirius' words are allowed to have things read into them? "Sit 
Down Potter" is perfectly neutral. But "It's my house you know" is a personal 
attack? 
Is it not possible that Sirius was simply reminding Snape that it -was- his 
house and as such Snape doesn't have the right to bar him from be present 
anywhere within it?
And could not Snape's reaction simply be that he's not at all happy at having 
been reminded of that? 

>Then he casts doubts on Snape's ability to teach it, and delivers
>the ultimate insult: you are an unreformed Death Eater.

Lets go through the -whole- chronology here shall we? You seem to have left a 
few bits out.
Just after Sirius reminds Snape that he's in Sirius' house. We get the first 
comments regarding Sirius' supposed uselessness and cowardice:
"I know how you like to feel...involved."
"'I am sure that you must feel  -ah- frustrated by the fact thay you can do 
nothnig useful' Snape laid a delicate stress on the word, 'for the Order'" 
"Snape's sneer became more pronounced" 
Only after that did Sirius ask "Why can't Dumbledore teach Harry?"
then some shots at Harry:  
"It is the headmaster's privilege to delegate less enjoyable tasks. I assure 
you I did not beg for the job." 
"If anybody asks, you are taking Remedial Potions. Nobody who has seen you in 
myclasses could deny you need them" 
and another shot at Sirius:
"unlike you I do not have unlimeted leisure time" 
and finally a shot at James and Harry:
"you'll know he's so arrogant that criticism simply bounces off of him." 
And only then do we get:
"I don't care if Dumbledore thinks you've reformed. I know better." 
So it's not quite "poor abused misunderstood Snape was only trying to be a 
professional and they drove him to the point of using harsh words."  He was 
having no problem using harsh words from the start of the encounter.

>This is what bugs me - how can Dumbledore blame Snape for Harry's 
>failure? I wrote before that Snape was surprisingly civil and 
>professional during the lessons. Cold, yes, but civil.

Surprisingly civil? What, should he not have been? 
And that of course leaves aside the whole issue of whether or not he was in 
fact consistently professional and civil.
Is showing visable dislike for a student professional?
"Harry sat down and so did Snape, his cold black eyes fixed unblinkingly upon 
harry, dislike etched in every line of his face." (US ed. pg 529) 
Is a remark like "I can only hope that you prove more adept at it that 
Potions" professional or civil? (pg 530)
Is "Dim though you may be" (pg 590) professional or civil? 
Is parroting the MoM line about Harry seeking out danger in order to get 
attention: "perhaps you actually enjoy having these visions and dreams, Potter. 
Maybe they make you feel special - important?" civil and professional? (pg 591)

>Harry made absolutely no effort to succeed in these lessons.
Absolutley no effort? 
Is that your reading of the text. Harry stops trying to clear his mind before 
sleeping prior to the pensive incident but I think that saying he was making 
"absolutely no effort" is frank hyperbole. He seems to be trying very hard 
during the sessions that are documented in the text and getting a review of his 
most painful memories and increasingly severe chronic pain as his reward. 
And when Harry says outright that Snape isn't telling him how after Snape 
tells him to repell with his bain, Snape replies only with "Manners, Potter." 
Harry wan't making the sort of effort that would have prevented Voldemort 
from planting an image in his mind, but neither was Snape appearing to do a very 
good job of actually teaching Harry how to do that. 

And as for Dumbledore blaming Snape.  He doesn't blame Snape, he blames 
himself for believing that Snape could refrain from letting his hatred of James 
Potter negatively impact his ability to teach Harry. And beyond that, well, the 
teacher and adult is presumed to be the more responsible, the one better able 
to set aside their feelings and do the job. One would expect Snape, a man 20+ 
years older, would be able to to handle the unpleasant emotions involved in 
dealing with the son of his most hated enemy. On would expect him to do some 
effective teaching, teaching that would not have involved quite so much pain or at 
the very least, would not have left Harry quite so confused as to what was 
actually happening or why with each lesson he was feeling more out of control 
and more in pain than he was before. 
In Harry's conversation with Dumbledore he says flat out that that he hurt 
more after the lessons than he did before them and while Dumbledore does 
contradict Harry's assertion that Snape was softening him up for Voldemort, he as 
much as says that Snape's inability to overcome his feelings regarding James 
Potter may well have influenced his ability to effectively teach Harry. 

>No, but he did nothing of the sort towards Harry in this scene.
Nothing of the sort? 
I must have a different copy of the book
"Snape's sneer became more pronounced.'Occlumency, Potter'" (pg 519)
A sneer deepend by Harry and directed at his question. 
"it is a headamster's privilidge to delgate less enjoyable tasks" (pg 519) 
Implying that not only does Snape view teaching Harry as undesirable but 
Dumbledore does too. 
Regarding the remedial potions cover story "Nobody who has seen you in my 
classes could deny you need them." A direct attack on Harry's academic ability 
and intellect.
"You'll know he's so arrogant that critisim simply bounces off him" (pg 520) 
Implying that Harry is so arrogant that cruelty or callousness is excusable 
because it will have no effect. 

I don't dislike Snape, I think he's an interesting, complex, and compelling 
character and I enjoy learning more about him. His contradictions add a 
tremendous amount of depth to the story and lend real weight to the JKR mantra of 
chosing who and what you will be. But I don't understand at all the efforts by 
some of his supporters to explain away everything he does or strip from him any 
responsiblity for the effect of his actions. From what I've seen in some 
postings Snape never does anything wrong - has never done anything wrong,  he's 
always the victim, always misunderstood, or always eyeball deep in some 
mindbendingly machiavellian scheme of positively byzantine complexity that justifies 
even the most blatantly cruel, partisan, or just plain nasty act that he's ever 
done. 
And I think that Snape is better than that. He's a big boy. He's capable of 
making mistakes just like the rest of us and he's strong enough to take 
responsibility for them. 

-Stripedog
 







 











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