[HPforGrownups] Re: Giants

[Wendy St John]

No: HPFGUIDX 66307


Calimora wrote:

"This entire episode with the giants reminded me forcably of US 
treatment of Native Americans. Herded on to undesirable lands far 
from their traditional hunting places and teritories they had to 
adapt from a free-ranging nomadic life to sedintory existance without 
all the sociatal and scientific steps that would normaly accompany 
such a change. Thus they suffered and died in job lots as outside 
forces declined to understand that tribes are separate nations (for 
better or worse) with their own histories and customs. Which is 
basicaly what the Wizarding world is doing.

As for 'naturaly' being 'beasts' instead of 'beings'...  Mountain men 
and other hermit types go more than alittle bit wild over time. 
Humans when left on their own begin to go insane. Thats how come 
solitary confinment is such a punishment. Giants noticably aren't 
human (neither are house elves), so who can say that Giants, when 
spread out aren't purfectly sane and well behaved, but in large 
groups they start to go a bit crazy. Besides, it's hard to call 
something a beast when they make tools, have a semi-perminant camp 
(with a throne? cant remember, Mom stole my book), and their own 
language."

Now me (Wendy):

Great points, Calimora! I like your Native American analogy to some degree,
but actually I think that *neither* of our examples (Native Americans or a
pride of lions) are really spot on. I certainly am not comfortable likening
the Giants to the Native American population (I'm not sure this is what you
were trying to say, it's just something that occurred to me when
considering your analogy). The Native Americans who were forced off their
lands were modern humans of the same species as their "conquerors" -
intrinsically identical in all respects (intelligence, basic physiology,
etc.). The differences between the two groups were purely cultural and
technological, and by this I don't mean that one group was inferior to the
other. Just that the groups had a different societal structure and had
developed different technology to support their lifestyle. The same can't
be said, IMO, of the differences between wizards and giants. 

This *is* just my opinion, as we don't have a whole lot of canon to go on
here, and much of what we do have is biased WW propaganda (Daily Prophet
article, for example). But I'm not sure that Potterverse giants can
reasonably compared with humans who have isolated themselves from society.
Your point about tool use and language is well taken, but Hagrid's
description of the giants he encountered doesn't sound as though they are
on a par with humans in terms of intelligence (let alone cultural and
technological sophistication). I think they would be better compared with
highly advance apes - really, really smart chimpanzees, for example. Chimps
do all the things you mention to some degree. Or, better yet, proto-humans
(i.e. cave people, as someone else suggested earlier). So I think the
giants are closer to "beings" than I'd originally described in my post, and
closer to "beasts" than you describe in yours. Of course, FBAWTFT makes it
clear that the Wizarding World itself has difficulties making a distinction
between "beings" and "beasts," so how can we be expected to do any better?
<G> Having said all this, I think that if I had to pick one or the other
category, at this point (based on your comments about language and such), I
would change my original opinion and go with "beings." Come to think of it,
if I had to classify chimps as one or the other, I'd probably go with
"beings" for them, too. <g>

:-)
Wendy
(Who really loves animals, so doesn't actually consider calling something a
"beast" offfensive - I often prefer "beasts" to "beings." <G>)