OOP-Harry & Unforgivables

Ali Ali at zymurgy.org
Tue Jul 1 11:16:00 UTC 2003


No: HPFGUIDX 66393

Bohcoo wrote:- 
 
 Some of us are upset that Harry attempted the Crucio spell. . . Has 
 it hit anyone else that, due to the prophecy, Harry is going to 
 have  to -- HAVE to, no choice in the matter -- use Avada Kedavra?
 
 Andrea replied:-

<<< I fully expect Harry will use the curse, though not necessarily 
on  Voldemort (as that might backfire). Harry's natural (or perhaps 
 taught by the Dursleys) tendencies are showing through and with the 
loss of his idealisation of the his father and the death of Sirius 
he had very little reason left to be a 'good kid' and follow the 
rules (or social conventions).>>>

Ali responds:- I really disagree with this assessment. Harry has 
lost his childish innocence and  his mentors, but I do not think 
that the behaviour we witnessed at the end of OoP is going to be 
indicative of post-OoP Harry.

OoP Harry spent the year on the edge. He was still recovering from 
the psychological wounds of the Graveyard scene. I wonder how a 
teenager is meant to react to and recover from such an event? There 
must be limits, even for our Harry. Instead of having help and 
understanding, he was left in the lurch by Dumbledore and ridiculed 
and even tortured by some in authority. As such, his actions - loss 
of temper and fighting etc show the extreme stress he is under at 
the time, when he is in case going through normal adolescent hormone 
changes. This does mean that is how Harry will continue to be.

Harry's use of the Cruciatus Curse was I think forgiveable under the 
circumstances. If Harry was tried in a court of law (well in the law 
that I know, not Wizarding Law), he would be be found not guilty due 
to temporary insanity. He had been pushed to the edge with the death 
of his Godfather, and was *not* in his right mind at the time. Even 
at this stage though, his Cruciatus was not very effective, 
as "righteous anger" doesn't hurt for long. As Bellatrix tells him, 
he needs to mean it (p. 715 OoP UK). Harry had seen Bellatrix 
threaten the Cruciatus curse on Ginny, he had seen her use it on 
Neville, he had seen her cause Sirius' death - and then gloat about 
it.

I believe that his talk with Dumbledore marked the end of his 
uncontrolled anger. He has at last been given the reason behind his 
suffering. If only Dumbledore had "walked his talk" in GoF:-
"Understanding is the first step to acceptance, and only with 
acceptance can there be recovery"  p.590 UK edition. Harry has to 
know what depths he is capable of plunging to, now he knows this, he 
can begin to control himself.

In OoP, we saw Harry's pychological props taken away; his father 
wasn't the wonderful idol that he imagined, Dumbledore wasn't 
Omniescient and always right, and Sirius was stuck in stasis, stuck 
between brother and father figure, in a past whcih belonged more to 
James than it did ti Harry. Harry has had to move on through his 
journey.

Andrea again:-

<<< Not that I think he's going to be using the  curse left and 
right but I don't think he'd have a moral problem doing it. 
Remember, he only saved Pettigrew because Pettigrew said that his 
father (James) wouldn't have let him (Peter) be killed. That 
reasoning? Not going to fly anymore. Harry's seen what his father 
is  capable of doing out of mere boredom.>>>

Harry used his own moral compass when he saved Pettigrew. He 
ascribed his feelings to those of his father. I do not think that he 
will have to feel differently, just because he saw a different 
version of James. He disliked the James he saw, afterall. What it 
does mean though, is next time Harry has to make a decision like 
this, he will have to make it knowing that it is because of what he 
thinks, rather than what he believes somebody else would think. This 
is Harry entering into manhood and accepting views and actions as 
his own.

Andrea:-
 
<<< Sirius or Dumbledore might have been able to reason him but, of 
 course, Sirius is dead and Dumbledore has been shown to be quite 
 capable of screwing up. Harry doesn't trust Dumbledore half as much 
 anymore and therefore Dumbledore has lost a lot of his hold on 
him.>>>

Harry has indeed lost the mentoring. Did anyone notice that these 
two main influences were white (Albus) and Black (Sirius)? Harry has 
had to learn that the world is full of shades of grey, he has learnt 
this to his cost, but this does not mean that he is about to go out 
of control. He has had to sink to use the Cruciatus, so that he can 
rise above it. Harry is not a whiter-than-white character. He is 
himself made of shades of light grey and very dark grey. I do 
believe that the Cruciatus curse has marked the bottom of the depths 
to which Harry will plunge. 

I am not sure that Harry will use the AK curse, if he does it will 
be through righteous indignation, rather than murderous intent, and 
I'm not sure that will be sufficient. I do not however believe 
though that Voldemort will be vanquished through AK. Voldemort 
understands the hate necessary to cast that spell, he does not 
understand the love which successfully resisted it - that is Harry's 
real weapon.

Ali





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