OoP - Occlumency - A case for Evil!Snape?

[l3al3y_Doll_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 66716

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "darrin_burnett" 
<bard7696 at a...> wrote:
> First, full disclosure, I am very skeptical of Snape and his true 
> motives. I think it is entirely possible he is still a bad guy.
> 
> Just letting you know what kinds of grains of salt you might want 
> here.
> 
> But to plunge ahead, I wonder if Snape was truly teaching Harry 
> Occlumency the correct way.

What other way was there for Snape to teach Harry Occlumency? Just 
like when Lupin was teaching Harry to produce a patronus, he had to 
experience it firsthand, and defend himself. Snape had to get into 
Harry's mind and Harry's job was to learn how to clear his mind of 
all thoughts and memories and fight Snape looking at his memories. 
He's supposed to practice everynight but finds it difficult with 
everything going on. Plus he's so tired at night he falls straight 
to sleep the moment his head hits the pillow.


> 
> The choices to teach Occlumency were apparently Snape and 
Dumbledore. 
> Dumbledore, for obvious reasons -- wanting to keep Harry away for 
> security reasons -- couldn't be the teacher. That left Snape.
> 
> We know that Harry felt weaker after each lesson. We know that, 
with 
> the exception of Harry turning it around on Snape, the lessons 
were a 
> failure.


True, and I'll go back to the whole patronous thing. Harry felt 
weaker after each lesson, but as the training went on, he excelled. 
I think it's also about the teacher/pupil relation. Harry trusted 
Lupin fully so he didn't mind being pushed to do better. Snape being 
the teacher in a way made Harry care less about performing well and 
impressing anyone.

> And even that peek into Snape's memories was not as rousing a 
success 
> as you might think. Snape got into his head. Harry just managed to 
> get him out of there. True Occlumency, as Snape describes it, is 
not 
> letting the person in in the first place.


While Harry got a peek at Snape's memories, Snape couldn't get into 
Harry's mind. So, it was an improvement.


> Snape was alone with Harry in that office. 
> 
> And Harry had no access to Dumbledore and very limited access to 
> Sirius and Lupin. Snape could have taught anything he wanted in 
that 
> room and Harry had no way of knowing whether it was helping or 
> hurting him. If I recall correctly, he never told Sirius, Lupin, 
> McGonagall, or even Hermione, exactly what was going on in there, 
> just that he was "practicing" and "working hard."


>From Snape's explanation of Occlumency, and what Lupin, Sirius, and 
Dumbledore say about it throughout the book it does seem Snape was 
doing his job properly- as for following the basics.


> Now, on to Snape himself.
> 
> He has every single right to be furious with Harry for sneaking 
into 
> the Penseive. Absolutely, he does. (That is, if he didn't mean 
Harry 
> to do it in the first place, which I tend not to believe, but 
still 
> throw out as a counter-argument.)
> 
> But teaching Harry Occlumency is a direct order from D-Dore. Lupin 
> and Sirius both say they will go to D-Dore and demand Snape resume 
> teaching it.
> 
> Yet, Snape does not resume teaching it. Yes, it is possible he was 
> waiting for Harry to apologize, but this is not some tutoring 
session 
> where Snape is volunteering his time to better a student's grades.



They never actually said they would tell Dumbledore themselves. And 
if Dumbledore had heard about it, Harry's Occlumency lessons would 
have been resumed, wether by Snape or someone else, it was an 
important task. He obeys and seems to respect Dumbledore. Lupin and 
Sirius tell Harry to go to  Snape himself and ask to start the 
lessons again, but of course Harry doesn't. The first move should 
have been Harry's, after all he screwed up. True Snape is an adult 
and could have acted like one, but after what happened and given his 
history with Harry, do any of us honestly expect him to have done 
so? Wether or not Snape intentionally left the pensieve out in the 
open to provoke Harry, that's not really the point, we all know 
Harry has a knack to follow his curiosity. Remember when he looked 
into Dumbledore's pensieve that was in a cabinet?



> This is what is best for the Order. Keep V-Mort out of Harry's 
head 
> is crucial, according to D-Dore.
> 
> Put simply, it's war and Snape, if he is truly on the side of the 
> Order, doesn't have time to continue to hate the son a man who has 
> been dead for 15 years. It a luxury reserved for peace. That son 
is 
> the best hope, according to the prophecy, the only hope, to get 
rid 
> of V-Mort. 
> 
> But D-Dore trusts Snape. We've been told that in nearly every 
single 
> book now. Hermione ignores or mocks Ron's conspiracy theories 
about 
> Snape.
> 
> I have to wonder if that isn't the most obvious "hide-in-plain-
sight" 
> foreshadowing you've ever seen.


I've stopped arguing Snape's true motives and his hatred for James 
and the others. We've only been given two reasons to the feud, there 
could have been something much bigger. Also, we don't yet know why 
Dumbledore trusts him.  Yes he has a love of the dark arts and USED 
TO BE a death eater, but we haven't seen him do anything recently to 
truly say he's still on the dark side, it's all speculation really.

-Maritza