OoP - GUILTY Dumbledore (was Dumbledore's true sorrow motives)

[talisman22457]

No: HPFGUIDX 67142

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "kiricat2001" <Zarleycat at a...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "talisman22457" 
> <talisman22457 at y...> wrote:
> > --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "alexcukier" 
<acukier at u...> 
> > reports having a "strange feeling. . .that Dumbledore is guilty 
> > somehow."
> >> >       
Old Talisman (talisman22457) wrote:  (Long post re: why Dumbledore 
wanted and effectuated Sirius's death > 
>  Oh, yes. Sirius had to die.
> 
>Marianne writes: 
>  ***[I]f Dumbledore was such a great Occlumens (T: Legilimens?) 
> that he can sense if people are lying . . . wouldn't he have 
ascertained that Sirius was telling the truth about the switch in 
Secret Keepers?  If the above is true, having Sirius  bunged up in 
prison would clear the field from the start.  No interference from 
the inconvenient godfather . . .[but] why point Hermione and Harry 
in the right direction for them to rescue Sirius in PoA? Why not let 
Fudge have him?
> Marianne

Old Talisman responds: 
I like your observation that Dumbledore knew that Sirius was 
innocent and allowed him to be imprisoned to keep him--as a person 
who cares about "Harry the person"--from interfereing with DD's cold-
hearted "noble" plans for baby Weapon!Harry. 

Why let Sirius out in PoA?  The time for telling Harry about the 
Prophecy was drawing near.  Out of Prison, Sirius's main goal is 
taking care of Harry. Harry, who wants a loving family more than 
anything, immediately bonds with Sirius (recall PoA scene where 
Sirius offrs to let Harry live with him). Therefore, DD gives Sirius 
and Harry the time between the end of PoA and the end of OoP to 
develop powerful feelings for each other (albeit mostly from 
a "safe" distance).

By the end of OoP DD (as well as LV) knows that 1) "the person 
Sirius cared most about in the world was [Harry]"(OoP 831) and 
that "the one person whom [Harry] would go to any lengths to rescue 
was Sirius Black" (OoP 831).  

Here is the bait, there is the trap. DD knows it all. The death of 
Harry's beloved Sirius in the M.O.M. battle then achieves all the 
points noted in the earlier post (#66983). 

DD, who has already explained that his plan involves not caring 
about what happens to Harry (except insofar as Weapon!Harry's 
utility is involved) obviously was willing to sacrifice Sirius's 
life and happiness--allowing his false incarceration in Azkaban (to 
keep him out of the way until the right time), allowing the 
Harry/Sirius relationship to bloom, and then, murdering 
Sirius/effectuating his murder. For the good of greater wizardkind, 
naturally. (838-9)  

No wonder DD weeps.  I don't think DD is evil.  I think he is doing 
dark and difficult things that he considers necessary to save the 
world.

Talisman, who will go to the grave with an unmet need to give Snape 
a nice warm bubble bath.

P.S.
Along with the surface level fantasy, the archetypical mythology 
level, and meditations on various themes, I believe the HP series is 
about the journey from childhood to adulthood of a person who 
achieves the "magic" of an actuated life (In a Mazlovian sense, and 
a journey that, happily, we can all take if we are brave & loving 
etc.) 

If so, Harry needs to recognise DD's machinations and free himself 
from them. (And really now, we are down to books 6 and 7.  You are a 
Seeker, Harry, let's have more looking below the surface, more 
asking questions.)  When Harry accomplishes his raison d'etre in the 
series, he must do so as a free and knowing individual.

Even if (when) DD dies, Harry needs to understand DD's role vis-a- 
vis his own.

Like many, I was very disappointed the first time through of OoP, I 
found it to be a very lateral book considering the 870 U.S. version 
pages.  It really is still a "preparation" book. The plot advances 
could have been achieved in a SS size edition. 

The Umbridge thing and the giant thing just seemed to go on and on. 
And, along with many other readers, I can't stand the constant 
backstory fill-ins.  

I'm enjoying OoP more on subsequent reads, it's all about the little 
things.

And, re-reading Books 1-5 and knitting together the clues will just 
have to sustain us, n'ce est pas? How can Book 6 still be years away?

Talisman, who thinks there is room in the tub for Lupin, too.