OoP - GUILTY Dumbledore (was Dumbledore's true sorrow motives)

[Talisman]

No: HPFGUIDX 67401

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "M.Clifford" 
<valkyrievixen at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "talisman22457" 
> <talisman22457 at y...> wrote:
>> > The velvet curtain flies open and Talisman, eyes rolling, mouth 
> > drooling, clawed hands thrashing, shrieks: DUMBLEDORE IS GUILTY! 
> > GUILTY! GUILTY!
> 
>Valky adds:
> Dumbledore is wise to a fate more sad than death, in his wisdom he 
> is aware that he is sentencing a to death those who he would 
rather not, but it is true we must remember he could simply "do 
nothing and sentence them to a fate much worse.
> 
> I weep for the wise old Dumbledore and the burden fate laid upon 
him and the people he loves.
> 
> Is this stall TBAY ready yet. Give me fifty please. 
> 
> Valky.

Talisman responds:
 You are not alone in seeing that Dumbledore is a tragic figure.  
Here is a private exchange (posted with permission) between Wendy 
St. John and myself:

>From Wendy St John
hebrideanblack at earthlink.net

Hi, Talisman,
 
Just a quick note to say I really enjoyed your post - you make a 
very good analysis of Dumbledore, one which may very well prove to 
be spot on. I hope Dumbledore isn't *quite* as cold as you paint 
him, but I definitely do think you're on the right track. He's sure 
not all sweetness and light. Of course we've known that for a while -
 I still think the way he distributed points at the end of SS/PS was 
dodgy, and I still don't understand to what end he chose to 
humiliate and alienate pretty much all of Slytherin House on that 
occasion. I'm sending this to you privately as I don't really have 
enough to say to warrant an on-list post, but I just wanted to 
congratulate you on your well-written and very interesting post.
 
:-)
Wendy St John
hebrideanblack at earthlink.net


From: talisman22457;

Thanks Wendy.
 
 I think Dumbledore is a complicated and dangerous wizard who has 
had to steel himself to do very hard things, in order to save the 
world from Voldemort. He is himself a tragic figure in that regard. 
He carries a very heavy burden. 
 
It may well be that Dumbledore was entirely right, that Sirius 
really had to die.
 
I think that Sirius's death has permenantly empowered Harry against 
Voldemort; and somewhere, from the other side of the Veil, Sirius is 
glad to have been sacrificed to achieve this end.
 
But even as I grant Dumbledore his good intentions and courage,  I 
cannot help resenting his "use" of people, not the least of whom are 
Harry and Sirius. 
 
And, if anything makes OoP "darker" than GoF, it is Dumbledore's 
actions. Although Dumbledore is "good" he plots and carries out the 
killing of a loyal, brave, long-suffering man who trusts him; 
someone who never sees the threat and so cannot defend himself 
against it.
 
I think it is right that readers understand but don't approve of 
Dumbledore's actions.  I think that Dumbledore will pay a price for 
his hard deeds in the end.  Perhaps he knows this too, but is 
willing to sacrifice himself.  Perhaps he alludes to the burden of 
these deeds when he speaks of  "things worse than death." 
 
And, Harry must break free of Dumbledore's puppet strings.  To that 
extent Dumbledore's plan must fail.  Harry must be freely and 
knowledgelby making his own decisions by the time of the final 
confrontation.
 
Feeling a cold wind blowing,
Talisman
 
Additional thoughts:

If this is ontological subtext for why seemingly meaningless bad 
things happen to good people (God (Dumbledore) has reasons we know 
not of, etc.) Will JK allow DD to complete the plan with impunity? 
What is her philosophical mix of free will/fate?  We know Harry's 
choices have "made all the difference (SS) but . . .

Talisman,
Who will be looking for Lupin when she sees red and green sparks in 
the sky tonight.