OOP: Sirius Thoughts ...

[minetourjunkie]

No: HPFGUIDX 67796

Ok, I'll admit I'm behind reading the posts, but at the rate I'm 
going, I'll never catch up so  ...

Pippin said:
> I'm not saying Sirius deserved to die because of his flaws, 
> anymore than I would say that  drunk drivers deserve to cause 
> accidents. Saying that Sirius's flaws led to his death is not 
> saying that he deserved to die on  account of them.

Ah yes, I understand that, but my point is that his flaws aren't all 
that lead him to his death.  Dumbledore messed up, Harry messed up, 
Sirius messed up and at the end of it all, Bellatrix had good aim.  
My point is that Sirius' flaws aren't the only flaws/factors that led 
to his death.

I said stuff about Sirius wanting to protect Harry <snip>

Pippin replied:
> Sirius spends most of 
> OOP feeling sorry for himself because he can't take care of 
> Harry, even though he knows in his heart Harry doesn't need to 
> be looked after or protected any more. That's what I mean about 
> losing his sense of purpose. There was work for Sirius to do in 
> the house--making it fit to live in and taking care of Kreacher--
> but he refused to do it.

But he did do it.  Other than pre-school when he helped out, I again 
point to Christmas when he got practically cheery doing things for 
the others.  In the house.  And honestly, housework as your purpose 
in life?  I'd be moody and pissed off too.  Imagine it: you spent 12 
years in prison for something you didn't do.  You've spent two years 
on the run and can't prove your innocence.  Your life's been ruined 
and now, you've got to spend every day hiding in your own personal 
hell, the house you ran away from years earlier.  And you're 
told "hey, well there's always cleaning!"   I can really sympathize 
with the moodiness here.  Is it right?  No, I suppose a perfect 
person would have decided, well if this is what I can do, I'll do it 
gladly!  But, Sirius isn't perfect.  No one is.  I'm not saying it 
was the right way to behave - I'm just saying I can sympathize with 
him for it.

As for Harry, I don't mean "protecting Harry is his purpose" like he 
feels he has to stand guard over him and that doing so gives his life 
meaning.  I mean, being a parent to Harry is a purpose - and that 
entails a lot of different things.  And Harry does need him.  How 
many times in this book does Harry say he wishes he could talk to 
Sirius but can't?  I don't think Sirius does know in his heart Harry 
doesn't need him because, even if not always for physical protection, 
Harry does need Sirius.  Oh, and had those OoP folks not shown up, 
that MoM scene would have ended rather badly.  I think Harry needs 
help with his physical protection too.

To agree with Dorothy here, Sirius isn't perfect.  And he shouldn't 
be - how boring.  I'll freely admit that good points have been made 
about him being selfish, whiny and arrogant.  But hey, everyone can 
be guilty of that.  Snape: got some arrogance going and hey, that 
chip is so big the shoulder's missing.  Dumbledore: well, he thought 
he knew the best way to do everything.  List could continue, but I 
won't for now.

Pippin said:
> Sirius didn't get a chance to solve his attitude problems because 
> the reader has to realize that Harry's life is at stake if he 
> doesn't solve his--or develops new ones.  

Dorothy replied:
> The people in JKR's books are like real people, very few of us are 
> completely good, or all bad. We have seen more sides of many 
> characters in this book to pity or to judge. 
> I for one thought Sirius deepest motivator was love, and from this, 
> as well as other things, his actions spring.

Exactly.  I think a lot of this book is Harry realizing that adults 
aren't perfect.  He has to learn some hard truths about his dad and 
Sirius - they weren't always nice, they made errors and they regret 
them (when asked about the pensive scene, Sirius says he's not proud 
of it.  He clearly still hates Snape, but knows he did something 
wrong back there ... look, he grew up!).  In fact, Harry learns the 
same thing about Dumbledore.  Even the great wizard screwed up and 
has to face the concequences of that.  And those realizations are 
part of growing up. I don't think it's a question of attitude 
problems.  And I don't think the reader needed to realize Harry 
needed to change his attitude - I think Harry did.  

I'm getting the feeling, Pippin, that you don't much like Sirius 
(which obviously is fine).  My point is that I think that's part of 
the debate here - when you like someone, you see their actions 
through rose glasses and when you don't, those glasses are rather 
grey.  I happen to like Sirius.  I think the guy got shafted with his 
life and I think it's too bad.  Speaking of sulking, he could have 
wandered around whining about losing 12 years of his life and using 
it as an excuse, but he never does.  

Oh and Jenny said:
> I agree that it was love that motivated Sirius to risk his own life 
> to save Harry, but his *own* arrogance, much like James and Harry, 
> led him to believe he belonged at the MoM, helping and fighting.  
> Sometimes having your heart in the right place is just not enough.

Well that is true.  In the book, it's not Dumbledore who tells Sirius 
to stay back - it's Snape (pg 732 of Canadian Ed.).  Given how much 
crap Snape had given Sirius about being useless, well, I can hardly 
imagine that *Snape* telling him Harry was in danger, but Sirius 
couldn't help went over well.  In fact, it's possible Sirius wouldn't 
have seen any good reason to remain behind at all - he'd begrudgingly 
hide for Dumbledore, but maybe he really did think he'd be more 
useful saving Harry and Snape was just trying to taunt him.  Running 
off because your schoolyard enemy says not to is stupid, but I do 
think it was as much about his love for Harry.

But like I said, I happen to like the guy, which biases my opinion of 
what he did.

Cheers,
Sarah W.