Who's at fault for Snape v. Harry?

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 67979

Talia: 


> "Both are at fault" is also a way of saying "I don't want to get 
anyone 
> angry".

Thankfully, I'm not afflicted with such desires. :)
 

> > Thankfully, I'm bold, arrogant and, some would say, stupid enough 
to try to assign blame.

Talia: 
 
> ...No comment here!  It's too easy!  ;-)
 
Me: 

I give people free shots and they don't take them. :) 

Talia: 

> He *is* the Boy Who Lived after all.  Isn't he damn near a saint to 
most of the Wizarding World?
 
He's an 11-year-old boy, Talia. I don't care how the rest of the 
Wizarding World views him. Snape, especially if he was involved in 
warning James and Lily, knows damn well what Harry went through.

Again, expecting an 11-year-old boy to be more mature than his 
teacher is completely unrealistic and unfair.


> Do you remember *why* Harry had to save Snape?  HRH stunned him.  
Unlike when Snape used the countercurse.  Harry wasn't unconsious 
with no means of defending himself.  As Snape was.  I don't think 
it's really "saving their hide" if they don't even have a chance to 
save themselves.  Not like Snape was just gonna spontaneously wake up 
and stop the Dementors...

Oh, granted. But, a save is a save is a save. :) Without Harry, Snape 
would be sucking Dementor face. (And without Sirius, Snape might very 
well be in the digestive system of a werewolf)

And James saved Snape at least partially to save his own, Sirius and 
Lupin's hides, but Snape still considered it a debt worth trying to 
repay. (At least, that's what D-Dore thinks, but anymore, who knows 
if he's right?)

So, I'd say he should feel some debt to Harry.

 
>Really?  Snape is supposed to be the adult but there are wounds that 
>never heal.  I can't imagine being in Snape's position and having to 
>look at someonewho is the spitting image of my tormentor.  >
(Hm...spitting image is a strange phrase, isn't it?)
> 

That doesn't change that Snape has had 15 years to get over it. And 
on a strictly professional level, Snape is wrong for taking it out on 
his student. (And, by extension, Ron and Hermione, for being friends 
of Harry.)

Snape can always resign if it's too tough to teach Harry, but if he's 
going to stick around, then grow up and be a damn professional. :)


> Washing the feet of his attacker?  I'm just kinda confused...I 
don't get the phrase...I'm not being a jerk or anything.  I don't 
know what it means, so I can't really comment on it.

That was supposed to be another play on turning the other cheek. 
According the to Bible, Jesus washed the feet of his followers.

> Until we know all the details of The Prank, we can't know what the 
> psychological damage of it was.  There's no way of knowing 
repurcussions of things we  don't know about.  For all we know, Snape 
was in shock or something for weeks.  
> On the other hand, maybe he was back in action the next day.  He's 
like the posthumously perfect Sirius in that account: He sees James 
>in Harry.  How can he not?  Everyone tells Harry he looks just like 
his father except for the eyes.


Frankly, I don't know if I care how psychologically damaging the 
Prank was. Harry wasn't alive at the time. Neither was Ron. Neither 
was Hermione. Again, Snape is the one who is the adult and the one 
who is in a position where he has to act like an adult.

I mean, if he was in a cave somewhere, sticking pins in his James 
doll, it would be less problematic, but he's a teacher, with a 
considerable amount of power.

And, with great power, comes great responsibility! And to my mind, 
Snape has failed more times than he's succeeded in that 
responsibility.

And Harry's MOTHER tried to stop the boys from tormenting Snape. 
Shouldn't that count for something?

> Both weren't at fault in the beginning, I'll give all the anti-
Snapes that. But now, as Harry grows older, he should know Snape 
isn't gonna lay off. 

Which makes Snape's nastiness OK?

> He's managed to get over Draco.  Snape's just that kind of person.  
>They exist in  real life.  They may be unfair, but that's their 
>right.  No one has to be nice  to anyone.  It's a personal choice.  
>It may be perceived to some people as wrong or immature or whatever 
>the hell we're calling it today.  But Snape's allowed to have 
>whatever feelings he wants.

To be blunt, no he's not. Not when he's a teacher who is supposed to 
be objective and fair. Not when he's a member of the Order who has a 
job to do.

Or, I should put it better. Snape has long ago lost the luxury of 
letting these feelings get in the way of his job. 

As I put it in another post: Hate on your own time.

Snape, to my mind, is indulging juvenile thoughts when he has adult 
tasks before him.

Darrin