OOP: what we forget with Sirus and James and Harry /Xmas

[marinafrants]

No: HPFGUIDX 68821

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Koticzka" <koticzka at w...> 
wrote:
> Sorry if you felt attacked by my severe comment, Marina! I meant no
personal
> offense and I regret that my message might have been interpreted in
that
> way. And now that I think about it, I admit that it might have been
coming
> on too strong.

No problem.  Happens to the best of us.

> What I meant was that Snape was rejected by students, colleagues, 
not by his
> family, who we know nothing about. I do not find the fact that 
Snape
> remembers his parents' argument evidence of a bad relationship 
between the
> Snapes. And there is no proof, only an indication in JKR's
description, of
> Snape's possible loneliness at Hogwarts.

On the other hand, we do have Sirius' testimony in GoF that Snape had
friends in Slytherin -- he even named them all individually.  Sirius 
had no reason to lie about it, especially in such detail.  If 
anything, one might expect Sirius to claim that Snape was a total 
loser whom nobody liked, not even in his own House, but Sirius 
doesn't.

Now, it's obvious that young Snape did not have the same social 
standing that James and Sirius had, and that they clearly knew it 
and took advantage of the fact.  I'm just saying we don't have the 
complete picture.

> But whether the boys were teenagers or adults, their animosity 
would stay
> the same. We had proof from Sirius's carelessness in the kitchen 
(that is
> the beginning of the  Occlumancy chapter, I believe) when he 
allowed Snape
> to provoke him. Gosh, wouldn't you rather laugh at your visitor and
treat
> him as a pitiful git? Sirius doesn't. Why? Due to some potion he 
was given
> without his conscience? Or due to his male nature? Too proud and
feeling
> abandoned (again?...), he might have become too sensitive, too.

I think Snape deliberately baited Sirius in that scene, knowing that
Sirius was in a highly baitable frame of mind.  Everything Snape did
during that conversation -- insulting Harry, insulting James, 
accusing Sirius of cowardice -- was calculated to strike at the 
places were Sirius was most sensitive.  And Sirius, with his own 
animosity toward Snape spurring him on, fell for it all too easily.

>
> Or was he all the time? Wasn't it Snape who could control himself 
in this
> situation? Didn't Sirius provoke Snape by commenting on Snape's 
first words
> to Potter? So who is kind, who is noble? And who is mature?

Neither one of them, in this particular case.

> Let me finish with the sentence said by one of the Marauders 
(Remus or

> Sirius) to Harry - sorry for not being able to quote it and point 
to
the
> book:
> "You can know someone by how he treats his inferiors, not his 
equals"
>

True, though I would question whether Snape was Sirius and James'
inferior -- they were all students in the same year at the same 
school, with the same amount of magical training; Snape was not 
stupid, incompetent, or magically weak.  Still, there was a definite 
inequality between them, even if superior vs inferior isn't the best 
way to define it, so Sirius was not living up to his own principles 
in that instance. Snape, of course, has turned the abuse of his 
inferiors into a lifestyle. :-)

> And... not connected strictly with the subject, but I guess you 
might
agree:
> How did you like the beards and Santa Claus hats on heads of dead
house
> elves with which Sirius decorated his house?

I thought it was highly amusing, but not in the best taste.  Sirius'
sense of humor, like many other aspects of his personality, appears 
to be frozen at the same level it was at before he went to Azkaban --
 and he wasn't exactly a sterling example of maturity back then, 
either.  In many ways, his characters is still that of an angry and 
rebellious teenager, which is probably why Harry empathizes with him 
so well throughout OOP.

Marina
rusalka at ix.netcom.com