Tom Riddle's mother /NOW ALSO Salazar and DE's...

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 68923

> Now me (Cindy):

> I don't think that Salazar was a dark wizard either, as I don't think
> that he would have been best friends with Godric (which he was, ootp
> sorting hat said so) - and also, none of the other 3 founders would
> have wanted to found anything with a dark wizard.

Salazar valued ambition and cunning and pureblood over all. That could be 
fundamentally incompatible with someone like Godric.

I don't believe Salazar started dark, but I don't know for sure whether he 
finished dark.

Part of me wants to believe old Sal just couldn't change with the times. It has 
been brought up that, given the tenor of the times, there would have been 
reasons for not wanting Muggle-borns at Hogwarts.  I believe the argument is 
that "not trusting" Muggle-borns was his motivation.

And I grant it is entirely possible Godric's ideas  were extremely revolutionary 
at the time.

But I also know that  the "not trusting" motivation has been used to justify 
some of the most reprehensible acts in our history, most notably the anit-
Semitism of the Nazis. But, such reasons were also used to keep blacks out of 
the military, women from voting, American Indians and aborigines from getting 
rights and so on.

Perhaps Godric, Rowena and Helga saw, even then, that Muggle-borns 
would become more prominent. And Sal didn't get it.

And those "teachings," perhaps misguided, perhaps intentional, have been 
twisted by men such as Riddle, Lucius, and the other DEs. 

It is worth pointing out, to play Devil's advocate, that it's not only DE's who 
have issues with Muggles. It is shameful that there hasn't been a Muggle 
Protection Act up for a vote until CoS. Fudge himself is discussed as holding 
Arthur down -- and perhaps being taken in by Lucius - because of his attitude 
toward Muggles.

So, perhaps Sal's views are not just held by "evil" people, but by people who 
are simply wrong or misguided. That would indicate Sal was simply wrong or 
misguided.

I also have trouble with something else. If Salazar were truly evil and was 
tainting his entire house, then wouldn't the other three houses have found a 
way to kick Slytherin out entirely? 

They haven't, which could indicate the "all Slyths are racist fools" is a post-
Riddle phenomena, not a post-Salazar one.

And before you argue with me about the "all Slyths are racist fools" thing, be 
prepared to show me one that isn't... in canon. Don't give me, "Well, there just 
HAS to be one who isn't."

Canon.


> There is ofcourse the possibility that he slowly and gradually became
> dark, otherwise there would be no explanation for him creating the
> chamber of secrets and leaving a basilisk in there. You have to
> admit,that's dark. Probably in his own logical way he didn't think so
> at the time.

I have to bring up here, serving as mine own loyal opposition, that the 
motivations behind the Basilisk are legend. I tend to believe that the very 
existence of the thing goes a long way toward proving Salazar's motives, but it 
has been pointed out to me that he could have wanted it for defense.

I don't buy it, but throw it out there for fairness sake. I think he wanted to teach 
Godric a lesson and then the son-of-a-bitch died before he could get it out of 
there.

> Which brings me to another topic for discussion. Death Eaters. Perhaps
> a long, long time ago, when almost all wizards were pure bloods, DE's
> were seen as the good guys. Kind of a wizard-army (or Knights - as jkr
> has stated in an interview that the DE's used to be called the Knights
> of Something).
 But as times changed, DE's didn't, andso they became
> known as *dark*, and indeed became dark when they chose a new leader -
> namely Voldemort.

At one point, more people covertly and openly supported the KKK, so this is 
entirely possible. Where I disagree is in the interpretation.  I don't think the 
DE's (or the KKK) BECAME Dark. I think they always WERE Dark, and other 
people saw the light. 

> I know it doesn't have much to do withwhy Tom's mum married a muggle,
> but it doeshave a bit to do with Salazar, and she is a descendant.

Well, since my theory was specifically asked for. :)

Tommy-Mort is indeed half-blood, yet apparently (as Grey Wolf points out, we 
don't know 100 percent that Riddle was a Slyth) was picked for Slytherin.

Assume, with apologies to GW, that he was, for purposes of this discussion. 

The direct line from Salazar to Riddle would be a big point in his favor, 
regardless of being half-blood and Salazar might want to bring his tainted line 
back into the house before any further damage could be done. (God forbid 
Gryffindor takes him and makes him all gooey.)

Also, since choices play a big part in what the Hat does, Tommy-Mort's 
complete and utter rejection of all things Muggle would have been a big factor 
for Salazar's essence as well. 

Think about it. Tommy-Mort, raised, just as Harry is, by Muggles, probably has 
the same "orientation" period that Harry got. 

"You're a wizard, Tom."  
"I'm a what?"

It might have even been Hagrid's predeccesor who went to get him. Only, 
maybe, Hagrid's predeccesor doesn't say something that Hagrid says. (More 
on that later.)

At this point, though, all Tommy knows is that he's a wizard, his mother was a 
witch, and his dad gave him up because of it. 

That equals, "Hate Daddy and all he stands for." 

And he goes under the hat with that mindset? It's a slam-dunk for Slytherin.

Remember, Harry wasn't told to hate Muggles-born . Hagrid specifically says 
that Muggle-borns are all right, because his mother was one. So, Hagrid has 
essentially said Muggles aren't the problem, even though Harry has grown up 
with the Muggliest Muggles that ever Muggled.

So, even though the Hat wants Harry in Slytherin (and I maintain that is 
entirely due to Essence of Voldy bouncing around in Harry's head and not 
due to any problems with Harry's personality) Harry says, "hell no, I won't go."

The question is, did Salazar have any idea what Riddle was capable of and 
what he would do?

If yes, I think that goes a ways toward answering Sal's motives.

If not, then once again, Sal has made a bad choice.

Darrin