Comparison: Snape vs. Umbridge (depressing)

[C M]

No: HPFGUIDX 69337

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "terryljames76" 
<terryljames at h...> wrote:

>>>"Exactly why does everybody hate Umbridge?"<<<

Because she's a hateful, evil BitchToad from Hell?

>>>"What, overall, did she accomplish?  The fifth-years--not 
including the Slytherins--are much better at DADA than they are 
expected to be at this level."<<<

Harry and the D.A. accomplished that. Not Umbridge, who tried to 
stymie them at every turn. I suspect that even if she'd done nothing 
except teach DADA in her largely ineffective way (meaning no new 
rules, decrees, etc.), the kids still would've formed their club.

>>>"Fred and George have stopped messing about and gone into 
the "real" world of business.  Ron, due to their leaving, has gained 
his own self-confidence."<<<

F&G prematurely left the safety and security of their home away from 
home. I personally think they were robbed of some very valuable pre-
"real life" time. Also, it's debatable whether their departure is 
what helped Ron's confidence in that game. He may have come through 
in the Quidditch match even with them there.

>>>"And last but not least, the whole school is united--nothing pulls 
people together like a common enemy."<<<

The whole school is united? What about the Slytherins (especially the 
Inquisitorial Squad members)? It seems to me that things were about 
the same: three houses that are generally friendly, one house that 
thinks it's better than everyone else. All Umbridge caused them to do 
was act out.

>>>"...it's been proven that Hogwarts--and Harry--can survive without 
Dumbledore."<<<

Sure it--and he--can. But why would they want to?
 
>>>"Well, so is Umbridge on the "good" side.  And everyone knows that 
the best way to get a teenager to do something is forbid it.  You 
want a bunch of lazy, hormonal, angry Quidditch-playing yahoos to 
learn DADA?  Tell them they can't.  Umbridge is using reverse 
psychology. And it works incredibly well.
[snip]
(Canon for Umbridge's reverse psych: at the DADA exam, when Harry 
does well, she's smiling triumphantly.  She also watches him closely 
throughout the book, as if she's inspecting him, taking his measure-- 
as if to see if he can prove himself under pressure.)"<<<

I respectfully disagree with your Reverse Psychology' hypothesis. 
First of all, Umbridge's reactions to Harry's practical DADA 
performance are described as "watching coolly" and having a "nasty 
smile playing around her wide, slack mouth" (pgs. 714-715, American). 
Secondly, if she was really on Harry's side, why did she send the 
Dementors to Privet Drive to kill him? Why did she go completely 
apesh*t about the DA? Why did she try to slip him veritaserum?

Those are just a few things, but there are (I suspect) dozens of 
canon examples to dispute the "Umbridge wants them to learn DADA" 
idea.

>>>"The Unforgivable Curse?  Not so Unforgivable after all.  Harry 
used one--anybody not forgiving him?"<<<

He used a rather ineffective one on an armed, prepared adult who'd 
just caused him a great deal of emotional anguish. She wanted to use 
one on a seemingly defenseless child (in full view of several 
students, I might add).

>>>"The quill?  Yes, that's a hard one.  Surely anyone who could do 
that is just evil.  But...it's physical pain.  It's cruel, and it's 
horrible--but it will go away. [snip] The pain even has magical 
remedies to help it."<<<

I'm finding this line of reasoning pretty icky. Physical abuse is 
more acceptable because pain fades? Bruises heal? Would you say that 
to victims of child or spousal abuse? Additionally, it's a flawed 
argument since it seems obvious that Umbridge's Quill did cause Harry 
emotional pain as well. The whole thing seemed like a clear abuse 
metaphor to me, down to the fact that he didn't want to tell anyone 
about it. It was extremely 'after school special'-y, I thought.

>>>"And from it, he learned to keep his mouth shut and control his 
temper--not easy lessons to learn"<<<

I'll just say that there are MUCH better ways to learn those kinds of 
things and leave it at that.

I'm not going to touch the Snape stuff; I'll leave that to someone 
who actually likes him. But, even in my resolute Snape-hatred, I'd 
take him over Umbridge any day.

Wow. Kudos to JKR for creating a character that's caused me to state 
something like that. Damn. If that BitchToad isn't the evillest evil 
that ever evilled...

CM