Remus is James (was: Re: Remus and Tonks)

[Susan Smith]

No: HPFGUIDX 70273

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "phanbu" <phanbu at y...> wrote:
<SNIP>  
<A.G.>
> > Book 3 evidence:
> > 1.  Chap 5 Lupin does not stare at Harry's scar, mention his 
> > resemblance to James or how he has Lily's eye (like everyone else 
> > does upon meeting him); and Lupin addresses Harry by his first 
name, as if he is already knows him well.

<PHANBU>
> As a father, I would think that James would be more interested in
> Harry's scar than most people.  That is assuming that he hasn't 
seen the scar before (i.e. He hasn't seen Harry since the Godric's 
Hollow incident.)  Really, as a werewolf, he can't be sneaking around 
Privett Drive all of the time.  

<A.G.>
However, with the invisibiity cloak he could visit as often as he 
wished- 
> > 2.  Chap 8 - Lupin seems to be able to read Harry's mind-from 
book 1-book 4, JKR's pattern has been that when characters appear 
to "read" minds of each other, they have a close relationship or 
an "inside" track.
<Phanbu>
> Has Lupin even talked to Harry outside of Books 3 and 5?  Besides,
> even assuming James!Lupin, how close could the relationship have 
been, given that there has been no contact between the Godric's 
Hollow incident and the Train Ride to Hogwarts in Book 3?  Finally, 
Lupin is not the only character who seems to "read" Harry's mind.

<A.G.>  My point exactly, those who share a close relationship (Lord 
V); are Occlumens or all knowing appear to be able to read his mind-
so why Lupin-we have no reason to suspect he is an Occlumen, as 
powerful as Dd-but we could suspect he shares "blood" with him (like 
Voldemort)

> > 3.  Chap 10-Harry tells Lupin he hears his mother being murdered 
when Dementors are near-Lupin made " a sudden motion with his arm as 
though to grip Harry's shoulder, but thought better of it."  As 
Lupin, there is no rational reason why he should not grab his arm, so 
the speculation is as James he is affected by this news and trying to 
control himself.

<Phanbu>
What is the rational reason that James should not grab Harry's arm?
Don't forget that James was Lupin's friend and Harry looks amazingly 
like his father (everyone comments on this).  Lupin surely would have 
wanted to comfort James, but Harry is not James.

<A.G.> I really do not understand this point of the authors well, or 
your counterpoint well.  Again, let me remind everyone, this is not 
my theory, it belongs to the authors of UUGTTMHP-I was simply 
providing the person who asked with ALL the author's points.  I did 
not say I agreed with or understood each one.

4.  Chap 11-Trelawney says Lupin "positively fled when I offerred to 
crystal gaze for him".  Now, Snape, Dd, and presumably some other 
staff, as well as Hermione know he is a werewolf so could he be 
hiding more than that?
<Phanbu>
I think that he could be hiding more than that.  Is he hiding the fact
that he is James Potter in Remus Lupin's body?  He's probably hiding 
something else.  Really what else is there to hide that would be as 
tragic as Help me I'm a werewolf (which the staff knew); I'm a member 
of the Order (which at least Dd knew).  I do not think he is a 
traitor-we have already had 1 of the 4 maruders run that path.

<SNIP> 5.  Chap 12- 
> No one would like Lupin if he "looked more cheerful" or 
even "remained stoic" while Harry described ts was in Godric's hollow 
that night and witnessed the whole thing first-hand.  Imagine the 
surprise that Remus must have felt when Harry repeated the last words 
of James Potter, as he witnessed them all those years ago.
<A.G.> could be...but maybe not
6. Chap 13-Lupin-"shaken and pleased" congratulates Harry on his 
> > spectacular Patronus-we suspect "shaken" because the unusual form 
of his Patronus is a stag-James animagus form
<Phanbu>
James was Lupin's friend.  The shape of Harry's patronus proves that 
he is not so much unlike his father--maybe even that some part of 
James still lives inside Harry.  Besides, who would not be pleased
by a fully-formed patronus at such a young age.

<A.G.>  JKR does not choose words lightly-as a matter of fact she is 
aggravatingly obsessive with word play (read Stephen King's review)
Lupin is "SHAKEN" by the Patronus-not proud, pleased, melancholy or 
reminiscent  It could be he realizes just how much of him (James) 
came through in the teaching and subsequent Patronus.
> 
7. Chap 17- the door bursts open in a "shower of red sparks" Lupin 
enters his wand ready.  Recall Harry's wand at Olivander's it 
showered red and gold sparks-some say Lupin/James is a "true" 
Gryffindor which is why we see red sparks Why is it assumed that 
Godric Gryffindor does not have hundreds or thousands of decendants 
(or more)?  Besides, it is only speculation that the red sparks 
denote a "true" Gryffindor--it may be something else entirely.  

<A.G.>  Again don't kill the messenger-I agree it may only be 
coincidence.
> 
> > 8.  Chap 17 - "...and I certainly don't want Harry dead..." as an 
odd shiver passed across his face. (more than just a teacher's dread)
> Wouldn't a teacher shiver at the the thought of his student being
> killed?  I'd shiver at that prospect.  Why should we assume that 
this is more than just a teacher's dread?

<A.G>  Given that he has only known him/taught him for about 8 months-
he might be upset, distraught, forlorn, angry-but again word choice 
is peculiar "shiver" denotes to me something more.
> 
> > 9. Chap 18- "well highly exciting possibilities were open to us 
now that WE could all transform"-as Lupin he should have said THEY 
could all transform (after all he had been transforming all along), 
but caught up in retelling the story he says *WE* because he is James 
and referring to Peter, Sirius and himself.
<Phanbu>
Lupin could transform all along, even NOW.  This statement does not 
> seem so out of place to me.  You're putting too much empasis on the 
> word "we" and not enough on the word "now".  
<A.G.> Their logic (authors)-not mine, I could pick half a dozen 
other words and suipport them-just like you.
> > 10. Chap 18  Lupin has "no hesitation" about what James would 
think or say-how can he be so sure
<Phanbu>
> I don't recall the exact context of this event.  I would think that 
> Lupin, as James' friend, could identify what James would think 
without too much trouble in most trivial matters (and even some 
not-too-trivial).
<A.G.>  This was another weak point of the authors I felt
> 
> > 11.  Lupin's first name is Remus- In the legend of Romulus and 
Remus, Remus was killed by his brother or his brother's followers 
(such as Peter, DEs or Voldemort)
<Phanbu>I'm confused.  Are you saying that James or Remus is 
Voldemort's brother?  Or are you saying that James killed Lupin (by 
mistake?)?

<A.G.>  Again, I am NOT saying this-the authors of UUGTTMHP are 
saying it.  IMO I took it to mean that Remus concealed in James 
Potter's body was killed by his "brother" (I took brother to be 
James) and/or brother's followers (Peter Pettigrew also tagged after 
James and was definitely his follower).  Peter's betrayal led to 
James (Lupin's) death.  I just think the author's were tweaking JKR's 
mythological reference to suit the theory.

I really appreciate your insight.  I am buying into this theory 
partially because I have yet to read a better one.  However, I, too 
have a lot of questions about it.  The biggest one being why James 
would change secret keepers then also do a switching spell.  But, 
again, no one has ever presented me with a better theory, yet.

However, I appreciate anyone's response on how to debunk this one and 
am open to all thoughts and suggestions.

A.G.