[HPforGrownups] Why to Like and Not Like OoP

[Anne Robotti]

No: HPFGUIDX 70560

M.steinberger wrote:

>Delving into HP's problems doesn't happen.
> 

I don't know much about the history of HP4GU, being new here myself. I did
find this post completely fascinating and agreed with quite a bit of it.
Having waited for OoP for so long, and having farmed out all the kids to
babysitters for a weekend of uninterrupted reading, having been *so* excited
when the book was so thick... when I finished reading it I had a sense of
anticlimax. And not just because I had built it up so much in my mind. It
felt like more of an "easy-read" than any of the others. 
>  
> 
> As a result, I've given up, for now, the 15-page thesis I'm
> in the middle of writing, detailing all the plusses and 
> minuses of OoP. There doesn't seem to be anyplace to post it 
> and get further exploration, only comments by people intent 
> on shooting the minuses down. 

I would love to read and discuss it.

> 
> 1. The characters' personalities and relationships are
> refreshingly realistic. Until now, perhaps this was true, 
> however, in OoP, the personalities and relationships are not 
> realistic at all. 

And, more to the point, I think some "pat-ness", some almost stereotypical
behavior for some characters is creeping in and I really hate that. I think,
for example, that Rowling was trying to write a weakness into Dumbledore
because it was time for Dumbledore to have a weakness, not because it was
somehow beneficial to the plot. I think it would have been much better for
Dumbledore to err on the side of alleviating Harry's pain and frustration
(memory charm? Something else?) than in the way he did. It just didn't ring
true. Unlike others, I'm beginning to be irritated by Ron. He gets Prefect
and all of a sudden everything's okay? Huh? I was waiting for him to join LV
and Harry and Hermione have to pull him back - much more realistic. It
seemed like he just got to be a Prefect and disappeared from the book, and
the Quidditch thing just made for a not-very-believable subplot, IMO.


> 
>             To be realistic, Harry ought to be suffering from
> Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, after the graveyard scene 
> combined with the severe lack of emotional support 
> afterwards. 

Severe? How about complete? And what's up with that? Nobody can apparate
onto that playground and give him a hug? 

> Kids can repress the kind of thing
> Harry went through, but then they look artificially 
> put-together, not like "normal," anger-venting teens. And if 
> Harry somehow had magically superhuman emotional resources, 
> he again would not be losing control of his temper. So 
> Harry's behavior in OoP, while realistic of certain people in 
> the world, is totally unrealistic for Harry.

I had high hopes, in the beginning, when Harry was telling himself not to
think about Cedric "for the hundredth time that summer." I though we were
going to get some real emotional meat. And we really didn't. IMO Harry has
*still* not fully dealt with Cedric's death in any real way. And I'm getting
a little sick of this fifteen year old kid being able to vanquish Voldemort
all the time too, somehow. I don't mean that in the way it probably sounds,
I know it's the premise for the books. But it seemed like this time Harry
was *way* more out on his own and I just didn't like it. 

> 
>             Ron's whole issue, in OoP, is becoming recognized
> as a person with merits of his own. Before he gets 
> recognition, he's got plenty of normal self-doubt, but 
> afterwards, he accepts his new status as a natural thing, 
> with none of the intensified self-doubt, testing the bounds 
> of the new reputation, and strained relationships that 
> normally accompany teenage (and adult) changes in status. No 
> realism here.

Right.
> 
>             Hermione is Miss Perfect, as Rita Skeeter teases. Realism?
> 

But she's not Miss Perfect in the way she was Miss Perfect before. She's one
of the people I mean are becoming a stereotype of themselves. She just never
felt like a fleshed-out character to me in this book.


>             Poor Sirius. He shows one face from page whatever
> until the day he dies. Angry, frustrated, resentful, jealous 
> of those who can act, and fond of Harry in as self-focused 
> way as the rest of his behavior. Granted, poor Sirius is 
> put-upon, so it is not his fault, perhaps, that he is 
> psychologically unhealthy, but his unhealth is a fact, 
> nonetheless. However, unhealthy characters of Sirius's stripe 
> don't cooperate with authority the way Sirius cooperates with 
> Dumbledore's insistence on Sirius's hated imprisonment. Yes, 
> Sirius sneaks out once. But just once! A real personality 
> like Sirius's wouldn't stay at Grimmauld place for one minute.

And he was always so frustrated with Harry for not taking risks (which
really made me dislike him, the way he presented this) and yet he doesn't
take risks because he's not allowed to?!

> Neville rallies to the cause with nary a
> blip of failure or self-doubt. Ginny gets more assertive with 
> no hormonal or other adolescent qualms to slow her down; she 
> even tosses boyfriends with equanimity.

Here I disagree slightly. Neville has been coming along through the books,
IMO. I think that having Mad-Eye Moody talk about the Cruciatus curse in
class was a big wake-up for him also. I was quite happy to see him finally
grow into some skills also.




> 3. The books develop important themes like the failure of
> government, the danger of petty evil, the evil within, the 
> importance of self-control, and so on. All I can say is that 
> the books present these themes, but they don't develop them, 
> and the presentations are pretty bald-faced and simplistic. 
> Umbridge is a pretty heavy-handed statement of the evils of 
> government control. 

And this, basically, is my problem with the book. I didn't feel this in the
series until OoP, the lack of subtlety, the hammering of familiar themes.
That's what I was saying about the stereotyping of the characters, and here
it is again on the broader level. I loved the character of Mad-Eye Moody -
weird and scary but unmistakably on "our side" and then revealed to be evil
in the end. Umbridge (even the *name*!) is *so* bad I was waiting for her to
turn out to be good, do you know what I mean? No such luck.


> The primary subplot has Harry being discredited by the
> Ministry, being persecuted by Umbridge, being set up by 
> Hermione to teach the DA, overhearing other characters' 
> efforts to trip Umbridge up, being set up by Hermione to give 
> Rita an interview, getting some and then more of his 
> credibility back because of the DA and the interview, 
> following Hermione as she disposes of Umbridge, and seeing 
> the Ministry eat well-disguised crow. Pretty passive from the 
> point of view of the POV. Harry's passivity may enhance the 
> themes (which are not well done, in any case), but it 
> certainly doesn't make for a gripping plot.

I thought that the secret DA lessons had the potential to be *much* more
interesting than they were. After the first lesson, it seemed that all we
heard was "everybody was coming along," and such. Also, I really fear for
the school if a fifth-year, even if he is the Great Harry Potter, is the
best choice to teach DA to fellow students. I would like Hogwarts way better
if Harry was surrounded by brilliance, do you know what I mean? Is everybody
but him in that school mediocre?

> 
>             So why like the plot? Why not? It's good enough
> for a read through, but I don't think it could inspire 
> affection if readers weren't invested in the characters to begin with.


Yes. I enjoyed the book. I'll go back and read parts again. But it will
never be my favorite. Maybe I'm just holding JKR to higher standards than
other authors, or maybe I'm just easily bored.

Anne