[HPforGrownups] Politics

[Kathryn Cawte]

No: HPFGUIDX 71607

 Firstly I apologise if I offended any Conservatives out there - I didn't
mean to. I was making an observation based on the actions of my circle of
friends (which happened to include a large number of members of Conservative
Future). Because right wingers tend to be lumped together in public
perception they do feel a need to be defensive and ever so slightly paranoid
that every attack on the right is an attack on them specifically.

Having said that let's get back to our scheduled HP discussion :)

Irene said -

Now, I don't happen to be a member of the Conservative party, or a voter 
  for this party, but if I was I would find myself in a lose-lose 
position now: greeted with such gems of logical thinking as "Dolores 
Umbridge, definitely of the right - someone that cruel has to be" you 
can't even protest. Because if said hypothetical CF member would say 
something like
"Sorry, what about Stalin? Trotsky? Baader-Meinhof? French revolution?", 
you would say they are too touchy, defensive, scared and protest too 
much. Not a nice position to be.


Me -

* I* never said Umbridge was of the right because she was cruel. When it
comes to evil dictators it is sometimes difficult to tell because some of
them are so far to the right/left they are beginning to meet the people
coming the other way. Fascism is a movement which tends to stress
nationalism and respect for authority. Communism stresses unity based on
class rather than race/nationality and the overthrow of the old structures
of society. In Stalin and Mao's case obviously they end replacing them with
their own authoritarian systems but the basic tenet is equality. Umbridge
does not seem to me to show any kind of desire to help the lower classes (in
as much as the WW has them) but rather to be aligning herself with the
establishment. She is very authoritarian and if her own words can be
believed genuiniely seems to see Harry as a danger to the status quo. I see
her as wanting the WW to unite (admittedly by unite she means follow her and
Fudge). I associate her with the extreme right because in Europe (I don't
know about America) right wing parties often adopt a paternalistic approach
towards their citizens - we know best, just do as we say.

Irene again -

Dolores Umbridge - control freak extraordinaire. It's so easy to make 
parallels between her educational policies and Charles Clarke, that I 
will leave as an exercise to the reader

Me -

I'm not entirely sure I would have said Umbridge *had* any educational
policies so I can't compare them to those of Clarke or anybody else. Other
than her read don't practice approach (which I actually attribute to the
fact that she's scared that she's not very good at the subject) her policies
seem to be managerial and organizational rather than educational.

Irene -

Let's go for the harder target: I postulate that my favourite character, 
Hermione, has Margaret Thatcher for a role model. Think about it:
Hermione is clever, ruthless, attracted to a successful older man and 
scares the bejesus out of her male peers. Oh, and she has a big hair.
All in all, sound way more convincing than comparing her to Clare Short.

Me -

Well I'll admit you've given me a problem here - how do I argue with your
political analysis when you haven't made one? I mean if we're just going by
looks then Ron is probably Charles Kennedy (Kennedy's hair isn't as red but
when he's on television he does always seem very ... pink, bless him)Binns
is John Major and Dumbledore is Santa Clause. However I was interested in
discussing their beliefs.

Magaret Thatcher and her Conservative colleagues believed that everyone
should help themselves, that rewarding the financially well of with lower
taxes benefitted the economy due to the trickle down effect and in promoting
the individual. Hermione doesn't seem to espouse this sort of thing at all.
She is shocked by the 'slavery' shown in the wizarding world. Her approach
to SPEW is hardly one of letting the elves help themselves, rather she seems
to want to give them freedom *whether they want it or not*. To me she has
the feel of a highly educated, well-meaning liberal wandering around the
Bronx and rather than getting to know and understand the culture just
decided to turn thing upside down in her desire to make everything 'better'.
I can't think of any particular politician I could compare her too - rather
she strikes me as comparabel to 19th century missionaries who take it upon
themselves to bring 'civilization' to Native Americans or african tribes or
whichever and often end up making things worse - but with the best of
intentions. You certainly can't question Hermione's intentions, her heart is
in the right place, but she is approaching this subject with all the
subtlety of a bulldozer.

K