HRH and their Prefect badges

[serenadust]

No: HPFGUIDX 72044

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "greatelderone" 
<greatelderone at y...> wrote:


<snip large section of debate between "greatelederone" 
and "ohhavefaith">

Ohhavefaith wrote:
> >prefectly duties (which 
> >would mean coming up against the formidable forces of Fred and 
> >George)

Greatelderone wrote:
> 
> Both of whom owed him big time for providing the galleons for 
their 
> joke shop. Furthermore the fact that he managed to manage them in 
the 
> DA said lots for his authority over them.

Me:
I don't think you can compare the DA, in which F&G are highly 
motivated to learn from Harry, to his being able to inhibit their 
testing and development activities.  Harry is very concerned about 
what the twins think of him (see GoF where he's worried that they 
would think that he was "losing his nerve" if he asks their dad 
about his scar hurting).  Harry is not any more motivated to rein 
them in than Ron is, and I don't think he'd have tried too hard, 
either.

Oh have faith wrote: 
> >Dumbledore's a wise man, he made his decision for a 
> >reason.

Greatelderone replied:
> His decision was made because he thought Harry couldn't handle the 
> responsibility and he admitted that his belief that Harry couldn't 
> handle the extra burdens was a mistake.

Me:
But I don't believe it was a mistake. Harry would have been an 
absolute disaster as a prefect during his 5th year.  He did not have 
the respect of a large portion of the student body already, and his 
selection would have undermined his position even further by playing 
into the perception that Dumbledore tends to unfairly favor him in 
all cases.  His selection would also have further undermined 
Dumbledore's position at a time when his headmastership was already 
hanging by a thread.  How on earth would that have been in Hogwarts 
best interests, when it would have contributed to his losing control 
of the school even sooner by playing into Fudges' hands? 

Ohhavefaith wrote:
>  >If Harry won't accept it, he ought to learn some humility. 

Greatelderone replied:
> I think he has learned enough humility after living with the 
dursleys 
> for tens years and being treated like trash by them.

Me:
And yet, he still has enough ego to (briefly) indulge in some mean 
thoughts about how he deserved the honor more than Ron did, before 
admitting that, apart from Quidditch, he's not really better than 
Ron is at anything.  

Ohhavefaith wrote:
> >And his circumstances haven't really changed - Harry is still 
going 
> >to have a lot to cope with next year, so maybe it's still best 
for 
> >him if he isn't a prefect. 

Greatelderone replied:
> Yes the circumstances have certainly changed. Dumbledore admitted 
> that his decision on not giving him the prefectship and the 
prophecy 
> was because he didn't want to over burden him and at the end he 
> admitted that it was a mistake on his part to think Harry couldn't 
> handle the responsiblities.

Me:
It was a mistake for Dumbledore not to have told him about the 
prophecy sooner than he did, but I don't believe that denying him 
the prefectship was a mistake (see above).

Ohhavefaith wrote:
> >Besides, I can't see any way of Harry getting given the badge 
next 
> >year after all that wouldn't smack of major favouritism.

Greatelderone again:
> It was major favouritism when he didn't give the badge to him 
since 
> he thought he couldn't handle it.

Me:
I don't follow your point here. I see that Dumbledore felt he was 
protecting Harry from additional burdens by not making him a 
prefect.  Is that what you mean by "major favouritism"?  Are you 
actually suggesting that Dumbledore should now take the badge away 
from Ron and give it to Harry in the next year?  Really?

Ohhavefaith:
> >He's been 
> >considered for a prefect's badge once, and rejected. I really 
doubt 
> >that Dumbledore would ever reconsider for anyone except Harry.

Greatelderone:
> However Dumbledore has re-evaluated his treatment of Harry towards 
> the end after the fiasco in the MoM where Sirius died.

Me:
Yes he has, but I ask again: are you *really* suggesting that he 
should now make Harry a prefect instead of Ron?

Ohhavefaith:
> > I 
> >bet there were a few people in Harry's year who were secretly 
> >hoping/expecting to be prefect, but none of them got the benefit 
of 
> >a personal explanation of why not, or of a last minute reprieve.

Greatelderone: 
> However none of them were thought to be the leading candidate for 
the 
> position of prefect unlike Harry who everyone from Hermione to 
Ron, 
> George and Fred thought was going to get the badge.

Me:
Hermione, Ron, Fred and George are hardly *everyone*.  Do you really 
think that Harry should be first choice for EVERYTHING at Hogwarts 
just because he's Harry Potter?  

<snip>
Ohhavefaith: 
> > But he's not done anything extra in OOP to earn it, 
> >so circumstances really have not changed since DD's original 
> >decision. 

Greatelderone:
> Yes they have! Dumbledore has realized that Harry can indeed 
handle 
> the extra responsibility.

Me:
You mean like he handled the responsibility for learning Occlumancy, 
which everyone from Hermione, to Sirius, to Dumbledore himself 
stressed that he needed to master? He certainly didn't handle that 
responsibility too well, did he?

Ohhavefaith: 
> >Besides, how much does Harry really care about being prefect? 
He's 
> >never dreamed of it before, that we know of. He doesn't respect 
> >other prefects. 

Greatelderone:
> Like Draco Malfoy who goes around abusing his prefect powers and 
who 
> should never have been allowed into the school.

Me:
More like Percy, I would think.  As for Draco, how exactly should 
the 11 year old Draco have been kept out of Hogwarts?

<snip>

Ohhavefaith:
> >This is not to say JKR won't hand it to him on a plate, but even 
if 
> >she does, I will stand by my conviction that it's blatant 
> >favouritism 

Greatelderone: 
> Favouritisim? Giving Ron, the underqualified candidate, the 
position 
> for no reason and not giving Harry the position because he didn't 
> want to overburden him was the favouritisim there.

Me:
Sorry, but Ron is at least as well qualified to be Prefect as Harry 
is, unless prowess as a seeker is one of the qualifications.  Ron 
has certainly been as useful in helping Harry fight against 
Voldemort as Hermione has.

Greatelderone:
> Future maturity? How is he not mature? The kid managed to live 
> through ten years of hell with the Dursleys and has seen his 
> schoolmates and friends die which all of been major character 
> building experiences for him. 

Me:
Those experiences don't mean that Harry is more mature than any of 
the other boys in his year. If that were true, then all children 
who've been bullied and abused, would be ahead of their peers in the 
maturity stakes, and that just isn't the case.

Harry certainly has had his character developed by all these 
terrible experiences, but maturity and character are two entirely 
different things.  OoP makes it very clear through the entire story 
arc of the book, that Harry needs to be more mature than he is shown 
to be so far, if he is going to prevail over Voldemort.  This 
maturing process has begun in the final chapters, and is likely to 
continue through the two remaining books, but he's not there yet.

Greatelderone:
> He certainly didn't throw a tantrum over such minor issues of 
whether 
> he deserved the prefectship or not like Ron who stopped speaking 
to 
> him after Harry was selected for the triwizard tournament.

Me:
::amused::  Boy, the Ron-bashers are just *never* going to get over 
that one, are they?  The GoF rift is *one* spat over the space of 
four years, and long overdue, at that.  Now it is apparently a 
reason for Ron to be disqualified as a prefect.  Harry is certainly 
over this incident, and seems to value Ron's friendship all the more 
as a result of it.

By the way, I'm certainly not a list administrator, but it has 
always been suggested that when you are quoting someone else, you 
should designate which statements were made by each poster.  It 
really does help to clarify the train of thought through the post, 
and makes it much easier to read and reply to.

Jo Serenadust, ordering a new shipment of CRAB badges