The Boy that Lived: Final fate

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 72222

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
> Annemehr [comparing Harry losing magical powers w/ losing the 
power of speech]:
>  >> I didn't mean that mute people are doomed to be unhappy, I 
> just  meant, what would it have to do with the story if Harry 
> became one?    It would be a pointless misfortune as far as 
> theme or plot go.  <<
> 
> That depends on what you think the theme or the plot is <g>.  
> Magic in stories  can be a metaphor about the way that the 
> powers of grown ups   seem magical to children. After all, what 
> conjuration could be more magical than the power to create new 
> life? And what is more transforming than love?

Annemehr:
This is what I was looking for -- something to sink my teeth into, 
to roll around in my mind and compare it to the "Harry dies" 
and "Harry lives" theories!

Back to Pippin: 
> 
> That is, as JKR has said,  the only magic, and in order to 
> emphasize that it *is* the only magic, the hero, in modern 
> fantasy, has to choose between it and  the make-believe magic 
> of spells and wands and so forth.  So in countless tales,from 
> Prydain to Earthsea to the Land of Oz, one must surrender  
> magical power in order to save the world and/or to  regain a 
> family of one's own. To be worthy of real  responsibility, that 
is,  
> one must cease to expect a make-believe solution to one's 
> problems.

Annemehr:
Alright, but Dorothy's real family was back in Kansas.  Harry's 
loved ones are all in the WW.  We could get really wild and suggest 
that *all* magic is destroyed in the epic battle with Voldemort so 
that all Harry's loved ones can be with him in the Muggle world.  
Otherwise, he also sacrifices a connection to them in a very real 
way (the possibility of receiving visits from them 
notwithstanding).  The only MW paths available to him then are 
either beginning a *completely* new life disconnected from his WW 
one, or forging some kind of bond with the Dursleys.  Okay, I can 
see you could make an argument for reconciling with the Dursleys, 
but I for one would find it very unpalatable if he also had to give 
up the people who actually cared for him during his Hogwarts years.  
And, by "reconcile" in this case, I mean something like "forgive" 
or "come to some sort of truce with," *not* creating "one big happy 
family"!

Pippin:
> 
> Now it is only fair to say that as a child I found that extremely
> frustrating, and thought it was a pointless misfortune that 
> Dorothy lost her silver shoes on the way back to Kansas. I 
> wanted to have magic, and of course I wanted to grow up too, 
> and I thought the authors were very tiresome for saying that one 
> always had to choose in the end. But they were only telling the 
> truth: there isn't some power that is magical and some that 
> isn't,  there's only the power we have and the powers beyond 
> us.
> 
> JKR has said that she simply detests Peter Pan for not growing 
> up, so I think we can count on it that Harry, if he survives, will
> find love and make a family of his own.  JKR has laid the 
> groundwork for Harry to find a place in the Muggle world. The 
> story begins in Little Whinging; it will be unbalanced if it does 
not 
> end there. Harry has discovered a talent, teaching, which does 
> not depend on magic.  JKR has also introduced the  dragon's 
> claw potion which allows one to learn at a fantastic rate. Any 
> gaps in Harry's education can thus be filled in.

Annemehr:
But, thematically, it was made clear that Dorothy *belonged* in 
Kansas rather than in Oz, wasn't it?  Here I have to admit that I've
never read about the silver shoes, I've only watched the ruby 
slippers, so I may be suffering from Movie Contamination!  Anyway, 
in the Potterverse it seems to me to be very clear that Harry 
*belongs* in the WW, and that his time living on Privet Drive is 
time spent in exile.  Although the series beginning and ending in 
the Muggle world is both symmetrical and mirroring the beginning and 
ending of each of the books, I need more than a geometrical reason
(so to speak) for him to lose his powers.

Another thought from out of the blue: in the very beginning of OoP, 
Harry is stunned by the sudden joining of the WW and the MW as a 
result of the dementor attack and Petunia's reaction.  If this type 
of thing continues, there may not actually be two separate worlds 
for Harry to chose between! <g>
> 
> As for the mechanics, we already know that wizards can lose 
> their powers: Voldemort did. I am sure JKR has worked out 
> something terribly complicated involving the silver 
> hand, the Veil, the locked room, the silver sword of Gryffindor, 
> the prophecy, and the various lifedebts outstanding. 
> 
> Pippin

Annemehr:
Voldemort did not so much lose his powers as all but die.  He 
*would* have died if it were not for the steps he had taken towards 
immortality -- steps Harry would not be interested in.  A better bit 
of canon for losing powers would be the wizards locked up in Azkaban 
with the dementors.

You've presented a good case.  My objections are not refutations but 
rather reflect my feelings that such an ending would bother me.  
Still, I wasn't looking to be convinced, I was just looking for 
someone to go beyond the mere statement that "Harry loses his 
powers."

It would sit better with me if I could see how Harry's loss of magic 
is as essential to defeating Voldemort as Sydney Carton's death is 
to saving Charles Darnay.  I'm sure JKR could do it plot-wise, I 
just don't see *why*.

Anyway, care to object to my objections? :)

Annemehr
who admits to never having heard of Prydain, and read about Earthsea 
much too long ago to have understood it properly or remember it 
well  ::realises in surprise that it was nearly 30 years ago::...