My shocking idea - the case for Tom Riddle

[vecseytj]

No: HPFGUIDX 73098

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Wanda Sherratt"
<wsherratt3338 at r...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "vecseytj" <vecseytj at t...> > 
> Me:  I don't think that Tom Riddle turned *evil* because of something
> > silly.  I think TR turned into LV, because of *love* or better 
> said:
> > hatred of LOVE.  See Tom's Mother dies from: love.  Tom never 
> wanting
> > to be "stupid" like his Mother; so he hates love or maybe, better 
> put
> > despises love. (snip)> Tom's mum names him with her last breath.  
> What does she name him? 
> > After her family?  No.  She names him after his father, after the 
> man
> > she loves.  Strange how good old Tom turns out just like his 
> > nasty old Father.  Not his loving Mum. (BTW, anyone know the name 
> of
> > TR/LV's Mum?)  I've never seen it.  I think it is *important*.  I
> > think she it DD's sister.  (but, that is a really wild idea, with
> > completly no canon.. so i'll stop)
> > 
> > So while TR/LV despise love.  Harry respects love.  (and Harry's 
> Mum
> > died for Love just as TR Mum did).  
> 
> This is possible.  But it would mean switching the main focus of the 
> story away from where it appears to be going.  For several books, 
> the theme has been developing that actions have consequences, and 
> the way we treat people can end up influencing the way they turn 
> out.  It is a sort of "Am I my brother's keeper?" theme; no one 
> develops in isolation, we are all continually acting upon each 
> other, for good or ill.  To turn Tom's downfall into a rejection of 
> Love, because he sees it as weakness, would be to remove him from 
> this equation; it would be to make his evil something he 
> deliberately chose, which I think is the opposite of what Rowling is 
> intending.  I think she wants us to see that Tom could have been 
> different; that he was wrong, but he was also wronged.  And I don't 
> think we know enough about his mother to say for sure that she was 
> loving or not.  She definitely fell in love, and it ruined her 
> life.  But we have no way of knowing what state of mind she was in 
> when she died; she could have named her son after his father because 
> she still loved him, or because she was defiantly proclaiming his 
> responsibility for fathering him.  In any case, it doesn't matter to 
> Tom; he never experienced her love.
> 
> But, Harry took the different
> > road.  
> 
> I don't know that he has taken that road *yet*. I think Harry is at 
> the same turning point Tom Riddle was at at one point.  Especially 
> when he shouts at Dumbledore "Then I don't want to be human!"  That 
> is his first response to all the suffering and pain that being human 
> entails (only his first, mind you - I think he'll change his mind).  
> I think that Tom once said the same thing, and it was in response to 
> some overwhelming emotional pain.  But Tom does choose that dark 
> path - he turns away from his own humanity, and tries to escape from 
> everything that being human entails: pain, suffering, death, but 
> also love.  I don't think that he didn't want love; I think he found 
> that the pain that goes along with being able to love was too hard, 
> and he chose to escape from it.
> 
> 
> But, to say that Harry is going die to save TR/LV is silly.
> > Honestly, what is to save?  TR was a nasty guy from a very young 
> age.
> 
> Well, I don't know about that. Dumbledore doesn't sound like he 
> thinks that there's nothing left of Tom Riddle; I think that's the 
> reason he addressed him as "Tom". Because there was still some 
> remnant of a human being there. 

Tj here: Yes, I think there is still Tom Riddle in LV.  But, what I
was attempting to say was this.  Tom Riddle made choices. *Bad*
choices.  Choices (paths) that have taken him *so* far from
*redemption* ('cause that is what we are talking about here).  That to
be redeamed to just "Tom" again is well, in a word impossible.
TR/LV's choices made him who is is.  Harry Potter's choices have made
him who he is.  They both had rough starts in life.  They both lost
parents.  They both are strong because of it.  And weak because of it.
 But, Harry given the chance of taking the easy path. (doing as the
sorting hat first thought, putting him in Slythern).  By Harry's
choice, of *not* putting *ambition* before bravery. That small choice.
Changed the corse of his life. (as AD told how important choice is, at
the end of the SS).


 Many have said that it shows that 
> he wasn't afraid of Voldemort, and I think that's true; but I think 
> it shows that he also wasn't impressed by him. That to him, the REAL 
> person was still the one he'd known, and he was talking past all the 
> built-up layers of Voldemort to address the human being underneath.  
> I don't know if such a person can be "saved", but I think that Harry 
> will one day see him as Dumbledore does.  Maybe "saving" Tom Riddle 
> will really consist of releasing him from Voldemort, so he can 
> finally die.  (But really, by this point we're practically writing 
> our own volume 7!) 
> 
> Wanda

Tj here again:  I think that AD calls LV "Tom" because he refuses to
acknowledge LV.  Not just that LV is evil.  But, that Tom Riddle is
just a wizard/man.  That TR/LV is not indestructible.  That he is just
a person.  That will die like any other.  That he is not *above*
others.  He in the end, is just Tom.  A former student from Hogwarts.
 Who made very very bad choices, and hurt/killed and destroyed many
families because he was looking for something.  What that was.. I
guess we'll find out in book 7.  (but Wanda you are right.  We're 
practically writing it our selfs.. and I like JKR's writing style too
much to think that I could write these books. .. )
Thanks.. for your view point.. Tj