Arthur, DoM, HP/Snape, reasons to spill, appeal for acronym

[Dan Feeney]

No: HPFGUIDX 73793

TM:
>Unlike Hermione, though, Arthur does not seem 
>the type to issue threats.

Arthur not only has threatened Lucius, he's a part of an enforcement 
wing of the MoM. "Excuse me, could I ask you not to plant those 
exploding toilet seats in major airports anymore? You won't? Okay, 
thanks." I whiff movie "nice guy" contamination here.

Dan:
>I agree, but another thing: Harry and the gang blow the bejeezus out 
>of a bunch
>of the prophecies. None of them are insane (well...). Perhaps one of
>Voldemort's goonies could've just very carefully broken the prophecy 
>with a
>small hammer. Sounds easier than the Cunning Plan he used. Then 
>again, Hermione
>did say in PS that most wizards aren't logical at all.

Interesting and funny, Dan. No one bit on my comments about the witch 
or wizard coming to the prophecy room - "Oh, so sorry, there was a 
prophecy about you, but it was destroyed at the Battle of the DoM. 
Bad luck that." That is to say - perhaps some will be recoded by 
going to the original hearer, if alive, perhaps some involved people 
present in the room at the time (!?!?!), perhaps some foretold their 
own destruction... lol...


tanzgabu:
>Someone brought up that Harry seems to be developing a Sirius-like 
>moral code, and I can completely agree with that. Harry, like 
>Sirius, 
>seems to only have compassion and even forgiveness for only people 
>that he deems worthy. People who are nice to him, or people that he 
>understands. The point has been made that Snape has saved his life 
>many times, but because he doesn't like him, he refuses to forgive 
>him for anything he's done (i.e. the petty, cruel things). He can't 
>accept that that's just the way Snape is, and that he might just 
>have 
>a very twisted way of looking at life, but still is trying his best 
>to do what's right.

Um, I cannot disagree more if I were reading a different book, which 
I assume I am not.
Throughout the series HP has done things out of instantaneous, non-
philosophical goodness - from saving Dudley, to saving the other two 
most valued things in the Second Task in GoF, to bringing back 
Cedric's body, to making informed and compassionate judgements under 
pressure in the Shrieking Shack, to working WITH Cedric on who "won", 
to not being able to really mean pain at Crucio and so on. That he's 
as snarky to Snape as Snape is to him and to others, or to Dudley as 
Dudley is to him and to others, does not interfer with his "choices" -
 a rather mild word, in this case - for what HP does do. What HP does 
is, consistently, unfailingly, act with his heart, before philosophy, 
before 'morality'. There is an ethical imperative working in the boy, 
and really, this is what the entire series is about. He responds with 
his heart to what he sees in the pensieve at Snape's office. THAT 
goes unappreciated by Snape, not by HP. HP doesn't know why this man 
hates him, has always hated him. Now he knows at least a part of it, 
and the fact that Snape rejects anything but HPs guilt in looking 
into the pensieve is Snape's choice, a choice that HP understands 
perfectly well, and which reduces the man in his eyes, such that HP's 
anger, when he's with Dumbledore at the end of OOP, has only been 
given more fuel. Snape has rejected any potential bridge with HP. 
Neither of them are stupid. They know this has happened. Now, 
however, with the busting of the correct potion work, for example, we 
are shown that Snape has decided on a more direct approach to 
sabotaging HP's work. THAT is rejection of the potential bridge, 
potential understanding. I am not explaining Snape's moot motives 
here. I am retelling what the book said. Snape has hurt HP. HP sees 
Snape has hurt Sirius. HP sees that Sirius and James have hurt Snape.
But what has just happened is that Sirius has died, Snape has 
demonstrated willingness to challange and bait Sirius, who is to all 
intents and purposes under house arrest. If Snape were attacked, HP 
would defend him - he would defend anyone, even Peter. In other 
words, what are you talking about?

snapesmate:
>I had taken it as 
>meaning Snape suspected him of wanting to get at the Sorcerer's... 
>Philosopher's... oh heck, Flammel's Stone. 

Yes, of course. I think that was Quirrell's real undoing, his 
vulnerability to having Voldemort stuck to the back of his head - he 
desired the stone for himself. After all, it was his master "who 
taught him there was only power, and those too weak to seek it." 
Quirrell took this to heart.

deb:
>I believe Voldmort has to know about Snape and it choosing to keep 
>that information to himself for the present. It is very useful to 
>have a spy in your camp that dosen't know he/she has been found out. 
>After all, Voldmort can feed Dumbledore and the Order, through 
>Snape, 
>anything he wants. 

By the same token, Snape has to know that Voldemort knows. So, the 
spying game, if that is what's happening, has to have at least 
another level of deception - the Malfoy/Snape duo triple agent thing, 
for example.

Melinda:
> Does anyone know if a thought can be staged to put into the 
> pensieve?  It wouldn't be very kind to do to Harry, but what if 
> Dumbledore modified the memory of the prophesy to what he wanted LV 
> to know?  
> 
> Either he knows that Harry isn't able to shield his mind 
completely, 
> and thus will use that knowledge to feed LV a fake prophesy, or he 
> knows that Harry can in fact shield himself if he wants to.  If 
it's 
> the latter, he must feel confidant that Harry now has the incentive 
> to shield himself.

Melinda, this sidesteps what I was asking/saying. That is, if the 
prophecy is the "weapon", is it a weapon because of what the prophecy 
says? Or because of what the prophecy makes certain people do? And if 
it's what the prophecy says, than one thing HP could do, for 
instance, to take a more self-directed role, would be to throw the 
thing in Voldemort's face. "Here it is, Riddle. What you gonna do 
with it?" Trying to keep it secret, at least ostensibly, takes up a 
lot of OOP resources, for example, in the fifth book. Perhaps the 
prophecy was "edited" by Dumbledore already. Perhaps the memories in 
the pensieve at Snape were "edited" memories serving some OOP or 
Malfoy/Snape duo triple agent purpose! In any case, HP could take 
matters in his own hands, believing he was protecting the innocent, 
as it were, and tell the whole thing to Voldemort. It's not so much 
the prophecy that matters now, really. How would Voldemort use the 
information? How would he find out about a power he knows not? The 
prophecy has just as much confusion potential known to Voldemort as 
unknown. The power he knows not - can he know it in future? 
Nope. HP is going to tell Voldemort, willingly, in what he believes 
is a short-circuiting of his chesspiece status. Maybe R/H happens, 
and this helps HP decide, maybe potions is out, HP sees auror future 
evaporate (keep an eye on old Severus), and this helps HP decide, 
maybe the new fear of the Dursley's upsets HP, and this helps him 
decide, maybe the danger to his friends, to anyone connected with 
him, helps him decide, maybe the Granger's being attacked, and 
Hermione saving the day, only just, helps him decide - but he will 
reject the status quo, and Dumbledore's Army will supplant OOP, but 
he will give the words to Voldemort.

My thoughts, anyway.

dan