Harry, Hermione & Ron [SHIP + CRAB]

[Doriane]

No: HPFGUIDX 74327


I'm a bit lost in who said what, so I'll just throw the quotes in 
without giving their authors, sorry guys, no offence meant.

> > As has been mentioned before, there is always the jealously Ron
> > feels when Hermione is interested in other guys,
>
> Ron exhibits jealousy of Viktor.  Period.  He exhibits no jealousy 
> whatever of Harry, even though Hermione spends more of GoF w/ Harry 
> than with him.

Oh-oh :-) Didn't you notice Ron's reaction in the after-kiss scene in 
OoP ? I was laughing my head off when I read it the first time (and 
still do).  

Paraphrasing : 
Ron (asking about the kiss) : how was it ?
Harry : wet... because she was crying.
Ron : are you such a bad kisser !?
Harry : I don't know... Maybe !
Hermione : of course not !

Now here comes my point : go grab your book, and re-read Ron's 
reaction to Hermione's words. In essence, he looks at her 
suspiciously and demands : "how do you know ?" As I said, I was 
laughing my head off when I read that because I could perfectly 
figure out what was going on in Ron's head : "how do you know Harry's 
not a bad kisser ? DID YOU KISS HIM ?" Ron is simply DEAD JEALOUS :-
) !

Now of course I am aware that I was reading this scene while under 
the influence of my strong R/H SHIPping. So yes I admit I might have 
put feelings in Ron's heart that JKR never intended to be there. 
Could be. But they would fit with that scene at least.

> Their constant arguing is nothing like the teasing and attention-
> grabbing that occurs among teen-agers when there is an attraction 
> involved.  They are friends, they like and even admire each other, 
> but they are very different people and it's their differences that 
> fuel the bickering, NOT some imaginary mutual attraction.  They 
> squabble like siblings, and her attitude toward Ron is very 'big 
> sister' overall. 

Er... Now why do you think I favor a R/H SHIP ? Precisely because 
they are acting as I was when I was their age and I had a crush on 
someone.
As for the big sister thingy, I'll have to say that it doesn't have 
to mean there's no attraction involved. In fact, when a girl starts 
trying to act like a boy's mother (or big sister), it too often means 
she's interested in him. Girls want the best for the guys they love, 
and unfortunately they often think they know better than those guys 
what this "best" is. So they try and force them to do this and not be 
like that. It is a VERY common trait in most girls and women when 
they have romantic feelings for someone. And it is one of the major 
complaints of guys concerning their girls : that they are always 
telling them what to do, what to wear, what to say, what to think, 
what to feel and what to like. My own husband had a few girlfriends 
like that, and was incredibly relieved to find me, who had learned in 
the meantime through bitter mistakes that I have no right and way not 
enough wisdom to try and mold someone else according to my ideas. I 
still catch myself doing it way too often (on this list, for 
example :-), but I always regret it when I realize what I've done, 
and I always try never to do it again.

> > In GoF, she's clearly indifferent to his post-Yule sulking & 
> > brooding, thinks very little of his emphasis on appearances over
> > substance, and generally not terribly impressed w/ Ron as a 
> > male.  
> >
> Is she terribly impressed with any other male? She seems to be 
> indifferent to any male (even Victor) -- no giggling, sighing etc.

First, as someone else already pointed out, giggling and sighing are 
not compulsory when a girl is attracted to someone. Some girls can do 
exactly the opposite, superbly ignoring the boy they are attracted to 
(I had my period when I was doing that. A perfectly unsuccessful 
method, I might add :-)

Second : I think you have a major point here, the main flaw in my R/H 
SHIP :-) : Hermione isn't interested in having a full-fledged 
boyfriend yet, not even Ron. She had an almost-compulsory crush on 
the cute teacher when she was 12. She let Viktor date her and take 
her out to the ball. But she's not interested in getting involved in 
a true romance yet. I don't think it's a matter of being impressed, I 
think it's more a matter of not being interested enough in the game 
yet to find a partner.

And for that matter, I don't think Ron is ready either. Personally, 
I'm not in too much of a hurry to see those 2 together, because I'm 
convinced they would blow the whole thing up on their first date 
together, and they would avoid each other for the next 5 years or so.

> It IS often Ron who's first to defend Hermione...but it's also 
> Harry who's OFTEN first to do so.

I don't think this one is going to take us anywhere. Ron and Harry 
are both Hermione's friends, so they both defend her when she's 
attacked. Maybe, *maybe*, I could argue that sometimes Ron's defense 
exhibits a particular *quality*, that would seem to indicate that his 
motives might be not just friendship. But the clues are usually way 
too elusive.

> "Kreacher's pale eyes widened and he muttered faster and more 
> furiously than ever.
> 'The Mudblood is talking to Kreacher as though she is my friend, if 
> Kreacher's mistress saw him in such company, oh, what would she 
> say - '
> 'Don't call her a Mudblood!' said Ron and Ginny together, very 
> angrily."

You know, I'm wondering if the Weasleys' systematic defense of 
Hermione when she's called a Mudblood doesn't simply have to do with 
their being pure-blood. It might be that they DO pity Hermione for 
being Muggle-born, even though they would never admit openly that 
being a Muggle is nowhere as fun, in their idea, than being a wizard. 
Arthur Weasley seems to be the only one in his family to think that 
the Muggle world is interesting and worth knowing. When he tries to 
get his wound stitched up, Ron talks dismissively of his attempt. He 
obviously considers any muggle technique to be automatically inferior 
to wizard techniques. So I think it is quite possible that the 
Weasleys defend Hermione so loudly because deep inside themselves 
they pity her and don't want her to realize how sad it is to be 
Muggle-born. And of course because they are ashamed of those 
feelings : how much more complicated can the human heart get :-) ?

> > It's quite clear to me that Hermione has already set her sights 
> > on Harry - he will have to betray / deeply disappoint / greatly 
> > offend her (maybe all three) in order to drive her away.
> >
> May I ask why? Are there any proofs for that in canon.

I have to agree : I never had the impression that Hermione had 
anything but strong feelings of friendship towards Harry. In fact, if 
there's anyone she's acting like a sister toward, that's Harry, but a 
little sister : sure brother, I'll help you if you need me, but I 
don't like it when you take my love for you for granted and start 
venting your frustration on me.
Just my feelings though.

> > [Harry] knows [Hermione], likes her, admires her, respects her, 
> > trusts her absolutely, and depends on her.

Humph... He doesn't know her so well. He knows what she tells him, 
but no more. What does he know of her dreams, her hopes, her 
ambitions, her pains, and even her life ? Pretty much nothing.
Likes her, okay. Even though sometimes...
Admires her ? When she pulls a mighty magical trick, yes maybe, but 
otherwise rarely. He despises her love for studying, he makes fun of 
her homework planning or House-Elves liberation obsessions, and he 
doesn't think highly of her rule-abiding and authority-respecting 
personality.
Respects her, trusts her absolutely ?? Big proof of that he gave when 
he refused to even consider she might be right about Sirius. He gave 
in to the attempt to contact him first only because he couldn't 
figure out a way to go to London on his own right away. Otherwise you 
can bet he would just have gone and done it his way. She's almost 
always been right before, but still he doesn't trust her opinion and 
sound reasoning.
Depends on her : yep, when he needs her. Otherwise, he doesn't care 
about letting her down.
I mean, honestly, I've seen that kind of relationships too often, and 
gone through them myself, not to recognize it right away : yes I like 
you enough, and I need your brains to help me out of troubles, but 
don't you dare contradicting me or giving me unwanted advice !

But then, Harry doesn't trust *anyone*. Not his friends, not DD, not 
Sirius. When those people try to tell him differently than he thinks, 
he refuses to listen to them. He always knows better. He's a hurting 
secretive 15-year-old boy : that's a pain but not his fault...

> > It may be that Harry only discovers his true feelings for 
> > Hermione when he is forced to contemplate life without her. If 
> > forced to choose between her and Ron, I'm afraid it's 'so long, 
> > Ron'.
> >
> That's pure speculations.

And it goes against cannon. In GoF, he states quite clearly that it's 
nowhere as fun when he has to hang out with Hermione rather than with 
Ron.

> > Luna and Harry?  Not a chance.  She and Ron have a much more 
> > similar sort of vibe, she's much more interested in Ron than in 
> > Harry, and so far her interactions w/ Harry have been of 
> > a 'female Ron'  sort:  comradely, companionable, off-hand, very 
> > much "guy-style".  MUCH more Ron's type (at least, he's a sitting 
> > duck for her).  In Book 6, I expect to see her making even more 
> > effort to catch Ron's attention, in part by simply inserting 
> > herself into the group;  
>
> Most readers  would agree with that.

I don't !
First, I don't think Luna is the kind to try and catch a guy's 
attention. If she liked one of them, she would tell him straight as 
it is.
Second : am I the only one who's noticed that she gives the creeps to 
Ron ? Ron desperately wants to be popular or at least not to stick 
out too much : there's NO WAY he'd accept to go out with someone like 
Luna. Not for a few years anyway, which is the period we're 
discussing here. Harry, on the other hand, doesn't care about being 
popular anymore. He wants support and understanding, and Luna might 
just be able to give him exactly that.
Third : I don't understand how Luna and Ron can be considered to be 
similar. Luna doesn't care about other people's opinions, she doesn't 
care about what is socially acceptable, she's not afraid of speaking 
her own mind, and she doesn't care about alienating her 
acquaintances. Ron wants to fit in, he will eat his words the second 
he sees everyone else might disagree with him, he doesn't care about 
having personal opinions, and he wants to fit in (did I already 
mention that ?). They couldn't be more dissimilar.

Now, just to make it clear : I expressed only MY feelings here, based 
as much as possible on the books. But most of you have different 
opinions and feelings, and this is GREAT and FUN !!

Del