Intrinsically Good magic, and motives over ends (Fwd from OTC)

[innermurk]

No: HPFGUIDX 59337

> > > innermurk said earlier:
> > > *My* whole point was that Cedric's death was *not* a 
consequence of 
> > > Lily's sacrifice. There were too many other choices and people 
and 
> > > things involved to trace it back to that.
> > > The only way you can make it a consequence of Lily's choice is 
to 
> > > make it Harry's fault that Cedric died. Since you concede that 
> > point, 
> > > it is not a consequence.

Amy said:
> > There, I can't agree.
> > 
> > "Fault" has a moral valence.  It was not Harry's fault that 
Cedric 
> > died, though he feels as if it was--which is understandable; 
survivor 
> > guilt is a heavy burden even if one *didn't* do anything 
instrumental 
> > to bring the person into danger, the way Harry inadvertently did 
when 
> > he insisted they take the Cup together.  It was not Lily's fault 
that 
> > Cedric died.  It was only Voldemort's fault, and Wormtail's.  


Abigail said:
> I think I have an example that illustrates Amy's point.  Two weeks 
> ago I took my mother's car to the bank where I ran a few errands.  
My 
> bank is right near a very good bakery (which is why I try not to go 
to 
> the bank more than absolutely necessary) and upon leaving, I 
decided 
> to go into this bakery and buy some cookies - just for my brother, 
of 
> course!  I then got in my mother's car and, while trying to make a 
left 
> turn, didn't yield the right of way to a car coming from my right, 
and 
> we collided - I'm fine, the other driver's fine, but I put a dent 
his car.  
> 
> Now, if I hadn't gone into the bakery, I would have arrived at the 
left 
> turn a few minutes earlier, and the driver I ran into wouldn't have 
been 
> there.  It's entirely possible that I still would have had an 
accident, 
> maybe even a worse one.  Any number of things could have happened 
> as a result of my leaving the area without being delayed by either 
pastry 
> or exchanging insurance details, but they didn't.  The fact remains 
that 
> my accident is a consequence of my choice to go into the bakery.  
It is 
> also a consequence of my choice to go to the bank, of the fact that 
my 
> mother lets me drive her car, of the fact that I was born 22 years 
ago, 
> and of the fact that I didn't yield the right of way.  Only that 
last choice 
> makes the accident my fault, but all the other choices (made by 
myself 
> and others) led up to it.
> 
> By the same token, Lily's choice to sacrifice herself for Harry set 
in 
> motion a chain of events which led to many results.  One of those 
> results was that Cedric Diggory was in the position to be killed by 
> Voldemort at the end of GoF.  His actual death was a choice made by 
> Voldemort and Wormtail, and they carry the blame for it, but it is 
> still a consequence of Lily's choice 15 years earlier.  
> 

I still cannot agree to your reasoning.
The fact that you failed to yeild is the *only* deciding choice that 
casued your accident. Any of the other choices can happen 
independantly of that one and no accident would occur. That 
particular choice could have occurred on any other corner with the 
same results.

By the same token, Cedric's *death* is not a consequence of Lily's 
decision. Because the one has *nothing* to do with the other.

The deciding choice was not Lily's.

Innermurk