MAGIC DISWASHER and Dumbledore Dead

[pickle_jimmy]

No: HPFGUIDX 59427

Brief Chronicles wrote:
If Voldemort fears Dumbledore, then Harry is never in the kind of 
danger that would really make us scared for him unless Dumbledore is 
finally overcome. Harry can't be our hero who wins the day over 
Voldemort until he has become the only wizard Voldemort fears. If the 
only wizard Voldemort fears is still Dumbledore by the end of the 
series, then Dumbledore ought to be the one to defeat him. 


Back to me again...

Let me say at the outset - I was in awe of Tom's 22k post on the 
whole Mentor thing. I thought I had gone OT when I raised StarWars 
and LOTR, but I wasn't in Tom's League.

Now my question to Brief Chronicles (see above statement). Dumbledore 
has been alive through the first four books, and I can't see where 
this has taken away from Harry's conquests.

When Harry was in the Graveyard with Voldemort, it wasn't Dumbledore 
that saved the day. I didn't think Harry was in less danger because 
of the existance of Dumbledore. And, Harry's escape wasn't diminished 
due to the fact that Dumbledore hadn't died yet.

When Harry was in the Chamber with TR and the Basalisk, I didn't 
think - not to fear, Dumbledore will save him, he's the only one 
Voldemort fears.

When Harry was facing Quirrellmort, Dumbledore wasn't by his side - 
he was in London.

I can't see why Dumbledore has to die to make us fear for Harry's 
life - don't we do enough of that already? 

And, will Voldemort ever fear Harry the way he fears Dumbledore 
anyway? Up till now he has been thwarted at each of their encounters, 
and yet each time he can find some justification for why he lost - I 
didn't take in to account your mother's sacrifice, I didn't take into 
account our "brother" wands. Harry is just an insect. A bug to be 
squashed on his way to his ultimate goal. Something that he holds in 
very low esteem until it leads to his final defeat. 

And, wouldn't we see Harry as a Greater wizard if he were able to 
shine while Dumbledore was alive rather than having to wait till he 
dies? I would rather be seen to be the best in my field because of my 
abilities, not because I *was* second best and inherited the position 
of best through the death of the champion.

So again - I loved the discussion, and many a fine point and parallel 
were raised, but I will stick (for the time being) with my belief 
that Dumbledore wont die. I don't see it being necessary to Harry's 
growth. I wont think less of Harry if he defeats Voldemort with 
Dumbledore alive. His safety isn't certain with Dumbledore alive 
anyway (you don't need to kill him off for me to worry for Harry's 
safety). I certianly can't see the point of killing him off as a plot 
device only to have him keep "pulling the strings" from beyond the 
grave.

Cheers

Pickle Jimmy