[HPforGrownups] MoM= Fudge out, Malfoy in

Wed Jun 11 07:52:46 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 59957

Wow, Susan:

Excellent research, and also alludes back to what Debbie was talking about 
earlier.

>Excellent prediction! I agree with you as well. In fact, it has a kind of
>"historical" support.
>
>In Ancient Rome (around 250 CE/AD), Pope Cornelius began his reign over the
>Catholic Church.
>
>
>According to http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04375c.htm
>
>"We may accept the statement of the Liberian catalogue that he reigned two
>years, three months, and ten days, for Lipsius, Lightfoot, and Harnack have
>shown that this list is a first-rate authority for this date. His
>predecessor, Fabian, was put to death by Decius, 20 January, 250. About the
>beginning of March, 251 the persecution slackened, owing to the absence of
>the emperor, against whom two rivals had arisen. It was possible to 
>assemble
>sixteen bishops at Rome, and Cornelius was elected though against his
>will.."
>
>"A few weeks later the Roman priest Novatian made himself antipope, and the
>whole Christian world was convulsed by the schism at Rome"
>
>"At the beginning of 252 a new persecution suddenly broke out. Cornelius 
>was
>exiled..."
>
>"In June Cornelius died a martyr, as St. Cyprian repeatedly calls him. The
>Liberian catalogue has ibi cum glori dormicionem accepit, and this may 
>mean
>that he died of the rigours of his banishment, though later accounts say
>that he was beheaded."
>
>
>
>Sound familiar? A persecution ends and then begins anew...Cornelius was
>exiled (probably because he was incompetent). Some say he died a martyr,
>others say he was beheaded...What if Fudge is sent to Azkaban...given the
>Dementor's Kiss or something...An "anti-pope" was declared...could this be
>Dumbledore? Hmmm...
>
>
>On Pope St. Lucius:
>
>From:  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09411a.htm
>
>"After the death of St. Cornelius, who died in exile in the summer of 253,
>Lucius was chosen to fill his place, and consecrated Bishop of Rome"
>
>"The persecution of the Church under the Emperor Gallus, during which
>Cornelius had been banished, still went on. Lucius also was sent into exile
>soon after his consecration, but in a short time, presumably when Valerian
>was made emperor, he was allowed to return to his flock. The Felician
>Catalogue, whose information is found in the "Liber Pontificalis", informs
>us of the banishment and the miraculous return of Lucius"
>
>"Cyprian continues, alluding to the three Hebrew children in the fiery
>furnace, that the return from exile did not lessen the glory of the
>confession, and that the persecution, which was directed only against the
>confessors of the true Church, proved which was the Church of Christ. In
>conclusion he describes the joy of Christian Rome on the return of its
>shepherd. When Cyprian asserts that the Lord by means of persecution sought
>"to bring the heretics to shame and to silence them," and thus to prove
>where the Church was, who was her one bishop chosen by God's dispensation,
>who were her presbyters bound up with the bishop in the glory of the
>priesthood, who were the real people of Christ, united to His flock by a
>peculiar love, who were those who were oppressed by their enemies, and at
>the same time who those were whom the Devil protects as his own, he
>obviously means the Novatians. The schism of Novatian, through which he was
>brought forward as antipope, in opposition to Cornelius, still continued in
>Rome under Lucius".
>
>"Lucius died in the beginning of March, 254."
>
>"Cornelius, who died in exile, was honoured as a martyr by the Romans after
>his death; but not Lucius."
>
>"The author of the "Liber Pontificalis" has unauthorizedly ascribed to St.
>Lucius a decretal, according to which two priests and three deacons must
>always accompany the bishop to bear witness to his virtuous life"
>
>
>With Lucius in the post of the Minister of Magic, he basically has complete
>control over the Wizarding World. We already saw the beginnings of a
>"schism" between Hogwarts and the Ministry. An incompetent Fudge will find
>himself ousted from office ("exiled"), probably after a MAJOR mistake.
>Lucius will be "chosen" to take his place. He gets in there and things just
>get worse. Maybe at the beginning, it looks a little better or maybe Lucius
>does something unpopular and people want him gone...but he'll stay in
>office. Malfoy will oust Arthur, but will recruit an authority-pleasing
>Percy, which will turn him against his family. However, I think Percy will
>realize what's happening and pull an Italy at the last moment. History says
>Lucius dies and later becomes a saint...but he's not a martyr...Hmmm...Such
>possibilites
>
>It's going to basically be like Nazi Germany and Dumbledore's side is going
>to be losing ground...they'll need support from around the world...
>
>I know the saying "History repeats itself", but this is just plain scary.
>
>
>Susan :o)
>
It is, indeed!  But I think you're onto something about the dynamics with 
Percy and his family.  I think there will be some tension in that quarter 
indeed, and that Percy will think of his career and that he can "get along", 
work with the new regime - but find out that he can't.  But I think he'll 
wind up being a valuable pipeline, voluntary or not, while he's there.

Maybe that will be Percy's chance to prove himself to have a spine:  to be a 
brave mole, perhaps even die or have his mind messed with in some way for 
the cause.  That would be tragic, but if it's sacrifice that's called for...

But I think what you said is right - I'm not sure I articulated it properly 
if at all - things are going to have to get worse, Dumbledore is going to 
have to lose ground, before they are righted again.

And I like the predictions of Snape and Black having to save each other and 
hating it the whole way - the reason I think that is very likely is that the 
opportunity is there for JKR to write the kind of crackling witty dialogue 
she is *so* good at - we saw some of it revisited in the "favorite lines" 
riff.  I'll be that the scoring off each other banter will just crackle off 
the page at those points.  :-)  It's another of those things that, if JKR 
doesn't do it, someone should in fanfic.

Felinia

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