Out of Harry's Head (was Re: Ch 14 GoF, weird?)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 60455


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, vjmullen <vjmullen at k...> wrote:
> >bboy_mn writes:
> >I think that is the advantage of a third person narrator, who, none
> the less, narrates from Harry's point of view. This narrator has 
> insight into Harry's thoughts and feelings, as well as insight into 
> the greater world around Harry. Sort of like the omniscience narrator.
> 
> >JOdel writes:
> >I suspect that she is going to have to do this [broaden point of 
> view] as the series progresses and the situation in the wizarding 
> world worsens. ...edited...
> 
> I reply:
> As a reader interested almost as much in the craft of writing as the
> story itself, I believe this thread begs discussion of GoF chapter
> one. Throughout the series, JKR employs a third-person omniscient 
> narrator focused almost exclusively on Harry's point of view, 
> excepting PS/SS Chapter 1 and GoF Chapter 1. ...edited... But in 
> Fiction Writing 101 at college, one of the first things students
> concentrate on is the continuity of point of view. And while JKR 
> doesn't ever leave third-person omniscience, she does not tell the 
> story from Harry's point of view in PS/SS Chapter 1 or GoF Chapter 


> 1. The first chapter of the first book is more of a "true" 
> omniscient point of view,...edited...
> 
> Chapter 1 of GoF is different, though; the point of view is that of 
> Frank Bryce for the entire chapter after the narrator's 
> introduction. ...edited...
> 
> My question is simply "what" – what is so important in the Riddle
> house scene that we have to see it filtered through Frank Bryce's 
> eyes instead of Harry's? ...edited...


bboy_mn: (yes, it's really me)

Excellent post, very well thought out and extremely insightfull.
Please don't hesitate to be a regular poster.

In the HP4GU-OffTopic group we have had several discussions about
proper use of the English language and the proper ways to apply that
language in writing. All very educational in a fun and interesting way.

One very interesting post was "Rules of Grammar" -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/14103
which goes something like this-

1. Don't use no double negatives.
2. Its important to use apostrophe's correctly.
3. Watch out for irregular verbs which has cropped into our language.
4. About sentence fragments. 
...
29. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary. 
...
Sixty rules in all.

JKR breaks a several of these rules (see rule 29), as well as breaking
some of the standard element of style, although they are more the
techincal rules than gross mis-applications of language like number 1.
Yet, she is an excellent writer. 

So voice and POV can be broken if done properly. Just as parenthesis
can be used if done correctly. It just that so few writers do it
correctly, that they created a general rule against it.

The beginning of GoF, in a sense, is like the start of a whole new
story; also a well written story. It lulls into complacency, it leads
us down the garden path, then when we are captivated by the new story,
and we are least expecting it, she snaps us back to the Harry Potter
story. The point of this shift from my point of view, is the marvelous
scensation I got when this mysterious but none the less interesting
side track suddenly snapped back into Harry's head. What a rush!
Pretty clever I would say.

Also, by using this method she is able to interject a tremendous
amount of back story. Details she could have only interjected with a
great deal of difficulty, if she had done it exclusively from Harry
perspective. It gives us some of Riddle's background, it shows us the
point at which Riddle made the fateful choice that lead him
irrecoverably down the path of evil. It also sets the location and
creates a familarity for Little Hangleton (is that right?), and that
comes into play at the end of the book in the graveyard scene. The
'living dream' just before Harry wakes up also fleshes out Voldemort's
character. It gives us a chance to get to know him better.

The rule against shifts in POV is to prevent confusion. I've read fan
fictions that shifted POV so often, so poorly, that you never knew who
they were talking about. But shifts in POV can be used effectively in
instances where you have more than one main character all through the
story, and where each character lends his own perspective and insight
to an incident. But it only works if you make it clear to the reader
that the POV has shift, to whom it has shifted, and it has to serve a
purpose in the story. 

 
> By the way, this is post the first from me. I've been stewing about 
> this POV issue for eight days now, so I had to reply when I saw the 
> thread heading that way. Have any of you noticed other POV 
> breaks/gaffes?
> 

> vjoporter, ...

It's been a pleasure talking to you. Don't be a stranger.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

bboy_mn

Note: My apologies for reposting this, but I wanted it under my usual
screen name.