[HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's money (was Ron, Harry, Molly, Money)

Tue Jun 17 21:49:40 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 60790

>me:
>it's cool =o)I just enjoy having some intellegent people to discuss
>HP with that take things well. =o)
>
>F:
>And we definitely see that he is tempted by all the wonderful
>things to buy - but doesn't.  Maybe just a sensation that his good
>luck may not last? You use an interesting and common phrase - "good
>head on his shoulders". Doubtless.  Harry has an amazing amoutn of
>maturity and self-control, without feeling too beaten down, given his
>upbringing.  It boils down to an interesting philosophical question
>that underlies how some writers write, and even how some social
>thinkers think - "nature v. nurture".  Which is more important?
>
>Me:
>Who isn't tempted by cool things to buy when you've got extra money?

*Most* people.  Some aren't.  :-)  (Incidentally - I'm not addressing you, 
Sen, but I had to bring this up;  I think some of the stuff I've said that 
I've read in other posts has gotten distorted, so here it is again:  I worry 
that Ron is headed toward money/financial addiction as matters now stand.  
He's not there yet.  Money/financial addiction is *NOT*  let me say that 
again *not* the same as 'greed'.  The difference is that the latter and its 
criminal cousins will lead the person to do anything, accept anything to get 
money.  The former is simply a state of mind of evaluating *everything* 
about money - that's where sense of self-worth stems from, etc. - and how 
others are judged.  In other words, even if you're poor and think you have 
come to terms with it, if you think bad things about others based solely on 
money and how they spend it and what they buy, that's a form of financial 
addiction.  If you think bad things about yourself, and allow interpersonal 
relationships *like those with your parents or loved ones* to suffer because 
of your financial status, then that's a form of financial addiction.  I 
apologize if anyone feels beat over the head with this, but I have just seen 
a few posts where what I said, at least, got twisted around over this topic. 
  I am just trying to make sure that people are clear on what I have said 
and understand the concept - which is quite real - whether they think it 
applies to Ron or not.  Oh - and 'pride' and 'self-respect' are not the same 
thing *at all*.  Most of the truly self-respecting people I know are quite 
humble - they feel that they're about at the dead center of humanity - they 
have some greater gifts, some lesser, envy no one, and look down on few who 
just lack gifts rather than those who do ill on purpose.  Pride, since we 
were talking about various religious canons earlier, to be dogmatic, is a 
*vice*, not a virtue.  :-)]

>I believe Harry's maturity and self control (along with the rest you
>mentioned) is because of how he was treated at the Dursley's. He
>wasn't really allowed to be a child. From the look of it, as soon as
>he was old enough he was a house elf of sorts for the Dursley's. He
>had adult like responsibilities. Granted not financial, but around
>the house. I'm sure because of the fact he was basically to be seen
>and not heard he absorbed a lot just be observing. In your last post
>I responded to you mentioned something about watching budgeting tasks
>etc with the Dursleys. I'm taking a shot in the dark, but I think a
>lot of the qualities Harry has is because of the Dursleys. We tend to
>be a product of our environment. Certain qualities can be inherited
>but a lot of it is what we learned growing up. I think Harry would
>have been the same if not better growing up with his parents. The
>Dursley's approach is of course borderline mental abuse if not full
>out. Sometimes people in those situations tend to mature faster and
>be more level headed because they've got the inner strength to
>overcome it.
>
True enough.  :-)  Harry comes across to me as someone with enough inner 
fibre and probably hereditary backbone not to let his upbringing get him 
down.

Has anyone besides me wondered about how hard the transition must have been 
on him, at 16 mos. of age, from Mom and Dad to the Dursleys?  It's not like 
he was a tiny newborn - he was of an age to already be walking and talking.  
And obviously he has some memories, even if it's taken a bit for them to 
arise.

>F:
>Yes, Harry did calculate that he couldn't splurge on the Firebolt -
>you're right.  I'm just speculating on how he came by the financial
>knowledge (or is supposed to in canon).  My point:  if you don't
>handle money as a child, you don't really understand how it works.
>Money management and budgeting are *not* instinctive.  I'm not a
>stupid lady by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not a
>financial genius, and I've always been way behind the learning curve
>when it comes to finance and such things because money was pretty
>much kept from me as a child, along with a discussion of how much
>things
>
>Me:
>Ack! I'm sorry about your almost archaic upbringing. In a way
>(financially) you almost had the Potter thing going?

IN that limited sense, yes.  :-)  In all other ways, no - I talk about my 
childhood openly and freely, I have no fear of "bringing people down", I 
have more of a fear of not being honest and not sharing and encouraging 
others to learn and share from each other.  :-)  I did not have it *nearly* 
as badly even as some of my friends - we were lower middle class, but like 
the Weasleys, I always had food and a roof over my head and went to school 
and got medical care.  The people providing this did a lot of other harm and 
had a lot of archaic and unique attitudes contrary to fostering real 
independence and potential - I'm nowhere near where I could be if i've had 
the ideal familial support, but I don't think my life has turne dout to be a 
disaster.  :-)

I think Harry is going to do tons better than I've ever done (if one can at 
all compare the real world and WW, which I think is dicey, but I want to get 
back on topic), because he got out of his home environment and got to go to 
Hogwarts.

I understand
>your point and know you're right. For some reason, I just *feel*
>Harry knows he has to be level headed because 1- The Durlsey's aren't
>going to give him a red penny for Hogwarts (it's been mentioned a
>time or 2) and 2- He knows he's on his own until he's out of school
>and 3- Knowing what we know about Vernon, he probably is a loud
>complainer of bills (I think that was stated in book 1 the day Harry
>got his first letter) and budget therefore Harry has probably picked
>up a tip or 2.We all tend to go a bit wild when it comes to getting a
>nice chunk of money. I don't think I know of a single person who
>doesn't. I'm giving Harry a lot of credit for knowing his splurges
>must be on inexpensive things like candy etc because he knows there's
>no more $ once he runs out. Unless of course he makes it himself.
>
Yep - and he hasn't had any solid ideas that *we've* seen on how he's going 
to do that, but then realistically most people *don't* these days - or if 
they thinkt hey do, they wind up doing something else entirely.  :-)

My personal belief is that Harry is going to graduate Hogwarts to play for 
England as its Seeker - I said that once before and someone on the list had 
a fit about how "Harry could and should and would do so much more with his 
life".  Granted!  he will in due time!  But I'll be that, with all of the 
options and abilities he will have, he'll want to do the thing he loves, 
that gave him a feeling of power and confidence from the first:  fly his 
Firebolt, play for England while he's young enough to do it - and be like 
John Elway (former quarterback for the Denver Broncos - I lived in Denver 
for a while and used to see Mr. Elway around town a lot - genuinely nice 
guy) who wisely invested a bunch of his winnings in car dealerships and 
restaurants and got advertising and endorsement dollars.  I think Harry will 
not become a Ludo Bagman type figure, but will use his natural talent to 
have a fun first career and wisely invest the rest - possibly even be able 
to offer job opportunities to some of his qualified former classmates - 
Seamus Finnigan managing one of his franchises, for example!

Felinia

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