Definition of Paradox (Was Re: OOP- Prophesy - Paradox or foreshadowing?)

[persephone_kore]

No: HPFGUIDX 62165

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Beth Currie" <lists at d...> wrote:
> If Time-Travelling Harry (let's call him TTH) hadn't conjured the 
> Patronus, "original" Harry would have died.  Which of course means 
> that there would have been no TTH there to conjure it...it's a 
> chicken and egg situation.
>  
In reply to medeacallous's post:

> Here's the thing:  If the 'unknown powers' that the prophesy speaks 
> of in Harry are a result of Lily's sacrifice, or of the transfer of 
> power that came as a result of Voldemort's attempt to kill him, then 
> it's a total paradox, because if the prophesy had never been made, 
> or even never partially overheard, Voldemort would have never taken 
> the step to identify Harry and Neville, choose between the two of 
> them, and go after Harry.  In which case, Harry would have grown up 
> without the protection of Lily's sacrifice, without the 'mark', and 
> without the powers transferred to him at the moment of Voldemort's 
> rebounded curse.
> 
I think what we have here is some inspecificity of terms. :)

What happened in PoA was not a paradox. It was a causation loop. The
claim that one cannot change the past /prevents/ paradox. If Harry had
failed to produce the Patronus, THAT would have been a paradox,
because then he never would have gotten even as far as trying. If he
and Hermione had been seen by their past selves, that would have been
paradox, because they didn't remember seeing themselves.

When a prophecy influences the actions of someone toward making it
come true, this does not make it either invalid or a paradox (though
it would naturally open up the possibility of psychological
manipulation/prediction as well as any actual Seer's gift). Actually,
self-fulfilling prophecies are pretty standard. If Oedipus hadn't gone
to the oracle, perhaps he never would have gone and MET his biological
father and mother. But this only means that the prophecy itself is a
player, and how can it not be? 

A paradox is introduced in prophecy only if hearing the prophecy
allows someone to /avoid/ having it come true. And even then, only if
it isn't the sort that has at least an implied "If you continue in the
course you were going if you hadn't heard this...." -- if there's a
conditional in there, then as is well known from basic logic, the
prophecy is true as long as the prediction is met. (I. e., "If P then
Q" is true either if P and Q are both true or if P is false.)