[HPforGrownups] OOP: My take on the prophecy/ analyzing Gryffindor boys/ theory on Harry dying (SPOILERS!)/ unforgiveables

[Richelle Votaw]

No: HPFGUIDX 62601

Combining 
posts 
here
so
muddle
through
and
adding
some
spoiler
space
until
somebody
tells
me
to
stop
doing
it.
:)

First, let me give a brief take on the prophecy, as I've heard several people who seem to think "either" means "both" because the word "or" is missing.  Not true, as the prophecy is written in a grammatically incorrect way anyhow. I'm off duty, but I'll stick some "teacher" stuff in here anyway.  Either can be a pronoun as in "Which movie do you want to see?  Either will be fine."  No or is necessary, because it reflects on the sentence before. Which is what I see happening in the statements of the prophecy, as "either" is referring to "the Dark Lord and the one . . ."  It's also a conjunction when used with or. Can be other things too, but that gets boring.  I didn't trust myself, as I teach 1st grade and may have forgotten, so I spent much of the day asking other teachers, high school teachers, and even a couple of grammaticians.  They all agreed with me.

So here is my take:

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches. Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies."--This means "the one" will be born at the end of July, and have parents that have defied Voldemort 3 times.  According to Dumbledore, that fit two babies: Harry Potter and Neville Longbottom.

"And the Dark Lord will mark him as equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not"-- Voldemort has now marked Harry (the lightning bolt scar); inadvertantly helping to fulfill the prophecy and thus making Harry "the one."  

"And either must die at the hand of the other "--Toughest line of all.  But I think it means one must kill the other.  Only Harry can kill Voldemort, and only Voldemort can kill Harry.

"for neither can live while the other survives"--as long as both are alive, neither can live as he chooses until the other is dead.  Already evidenced by Harry's ability to see what Voldemort is doing in his dreams, and then by Voldemort's ability to control Harry's dreams.

Now on my topic of analyzying Gryffindor boys, Cindy wrote:

> It bothered me as well. What if he really was sick, what if he'd been
> poisoned, and Ron and Neville were not there? Dean & Seamus would just
> be sitting there like a couple of old ladies, gossiping and watching
> him thrash about. It's like they were having a cup of tea and watching
> a film or something... 

Now me (Richelle):

Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it that way.  I just couldn't stand the picture that scene created, that while Harry is in obvious distress in a cold sweat, holding his head, and throwing up, Ron is trying to help (while improving his quick reflexes as Harry retches), Neville has run for help, those two idiots are standing there having a conversation.  I'm sorry, but it is not the time or place.  Sure, some people can't stand to see someone get sick, but if that's the case, GO AWAY!  Don't just stand there goggling at him.  I mean, sure, he wasn't actually sick.  Well, he was, but not from a physical ailment or anything.  But they didn't know that.

On another topic, for the record, I think the key to the Unforgiveables is something LeStrange said.  You have to enjoy it.  I think the AK would work the same way, you would have to enjoy killing.  I don't see Harry that way, so I think they'll have to find another way for him to kill Voldemort.  Power of love or something noble. :)

M!ndele wrote:

> If you ask me, Harry doesn't have much to live for with Sirius gone. He
> is going to live a very lonely life and I don't think he will ever be
> able to succeed in a relationship. His is a bitter and difficult life...
> as you can see at the end of the book, where he wants to run away from
> anything and everything Harry.

Now me (Richelle):

Mm, I hardly think that is enough to make Harry want to die.  Yes, he wants to run away from being himself at the end of OoP, but that's only in the heat of the moment.  Dumbledore gets him calmed down eventually, and he's quite sane by the time things move on.  Yes, he wants to spend time alone.  But then he feels quite pleased when Moody, Lupin, and so on turn up at Kings Cross.  I think he has seen that he DOES have more people who really do care about him.

M!ndele again:

> To satisfactorily end the series, I think that Harry will end up being
> killed, after a *very* heroic battle, and the very final chapter of the
> last book will be of him having a reunion in the next world with Lily,
> James, and Sirius.

Me (Richelle) again:

Well, I hardly think that it is necessary for Harry to die for the series to end satisfactorily.  Myself, I'd prefer to see Trelawney's latest "prediction" come true--that Harry lives to a very old age, is minister of magic and has twelve kids.  :)  However, what I do think, is that in the upcoming "blood bath" that JKR has spoken of in recent interviews, it is possible that many, many of Harry's friends will die, possibly protecting him.  If they know Harry is the only one that can kill Voldemort, I can see any of the TRUE good guys dying to save him so he can fulfill his destiny.  Therefore, it is possible that Harry may choose to die in the end and join his friends and family beyond the veil.  I really, really don't think he'll be *killed* by anyone.  I personally think once you walk through and go behind that veil, you never return.  No canon for that I don't think (yet), except for the repeated "He's gone" we heard so many times about Sirius.

Richelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]