OOP: the point of the death?

[kiricat2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 64634

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "marinafrants" <rusalka at i...> 
wrote:
> I've been trying to sort out my thoughts about Sirius' death and 
> whether or not it was pointless.  This is kind of difficult, since 
> I'm so emotional about the whole thing, but I think I've managed to 
> reach a few semi-rational conclusions.  Overall, I think that as 
> things stand now, the death does seem pointless, but that's only 
> because we won't see the actual point until the next book.  I fully 
> expect JKR to follow up on the arch, the mirror, and the 
> deliberately vague and inconclusive nature of Sirius' demise.

Yes, it was too unstructured for this to be the end.  I keep coming 
back to the thought that if she really wanted to beat the fact into 
our brains that he was dead, why not have Bellatrix AK him?  Why hit 
him with an unspecified spell so that he falls through that veil? 

 Why leave it open to interpretation? To make it more surreal to 
Harry? So he could struggle in Remus' arms waiting for Sirius to come 
back through the veil?  Maybe so.  Maybe to just twist that emotinal 
knife a little more so there is that sense of "No, what I'm seeing 
isn't true!"  

After all, the first death Harry attended in which he was fully 
cognizant of what was happening was Cedric's. Harry didn't have an 
emotional tie to Cedric so a simple AK neatly gets the point across 
that Voldemort and his followers are back, they're evil, and, oh, by 
the way, life is unfair.


> I haven't read every post on the subject (I don't think it's humanly
> possible), but here are the rationales I've seen so far for Sirius'
> death, and the reason they don't really work for me.
> 
> 1. "It's part of the Hero's Journey."  The Hero's Journey is a 
theme,
> not a formula.  If some aspect of the myth fits organicall into your
> plot -- great, it'll make the story richer.  But killing off a 
> character just because Joseph Campbell said you have to is silly.

Thank you!! A very neat, succinct summation as to why this is all 
fine and dandy, and has a great history and needn't be set in stone.
And, at what point does the Hero's Journey become cliche?

> 2. "It's necessary for Harry's character development."  I honestly 
> don't see how.  Harry's had his whole life to learn that life isn't 
> fair, that parents won't be there to protect you, and that there's 
> no point in ever relying on an adult to get you out of trouble.  If 
> anything, he's learned it a bit too well, as practically every 
> mistake he's made in the past five books has stemmed from this 
> attitude.  And frankly, this kid needs another dose of pain and 
> angst like I need another twenty pounds on my hips.

I've also seen the rationale that Harry has unrealistic visions of 
what a father is.  He has always seen James as a paragon. Well, he'd 
only ever heard good things about his father, except for what the 
Dursleys and Snape would say, and since Harry doesn't put much stock 
into their opinions, of course, he's not going to believe them.  

James is gone, but Sirius is still here.  Not Dad, but really close 
to Dad.  Dad's best friend. And, another man who Harry has not seen 
in the wrong.  Indeed, once he became convinced of Sirius' innocence 
in his parents' death, the thought of what Sirius had suffered as a 
wrongly convicted man probably also affected Harry's perception of 
him.

But, Sirius is imperfect as a substitute father, if for no other 
reason than the emotional baggage he carries.  And, there is probably 
more than a hint of truth in Molly's assertion that Sirius sees Harry 
as James come back to earth.

So, the rationale goes, for Harry to move forward, he has to divorce 
himself from these particular father influences. James is 
conveniently already dead, so Sirius must be done away with, also.

Well, that doesn't really work for me either, because since James is 
gone, Harry is left to deal with his discoveries about James' less- 
than-sterling behavior second hand. And, yes, Sirius is not the best 
father material at this point in time, but, had JKR allowed him to 
live, the struggle for the two of them to move beyond the initial 
connections each made to the other could have also been an intersting 
dynamic - Sirius coming to recognize Harry as his own person, and not 
James Jr., Harry realizing that Sirius cannot provide him with the 
perfect life, the perfect home, the perfect family feeling he's never 
had before.

> 3. "The whole point is that it's pointless -- in real life, people 
> die for no good reason."  As just about any writer can tell you, 
> truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.  
> Real life has no plot, no structure, no symbolism, no 
foreshadowing, 
> and very little in the way of consistent character development.  
> There are novels that lack all these things, too, but I don't see 
> any vocal fandoms forming around them.  Just like "it's part of the 
> Hero's Journey" is not in itself a good enough reason to stick 
> something into a book, "it happens in real life" is not good enough 
> in itself.

And, didn't we see that with Cedric?  With Bertha being in the wrong 
place at the wrong time? With Frank being in the wrong place at the 
wrong time?

> So where does does this all lead?  Well, I think that Sirius' death 
> will play a major part in book 6, and not just by giving Harry the
> 1,657,314th thing to angst about in his life.  I think it will be a
> factor in the plot.  One possibility, which I've mentioned in an 
> earlier post, is that it will be a factor in temporarily tempting 
> Harry to Dark magic in order to get revenge, or to protect his 
> remaining loved ones by making himself more powerful. 

I confess, I don't see Harry being overtly tempted by Dark magic per 
se.  But, I could buy that he'd be tempted to use something Dark, 
once he's convinced himself it's for a just cause. 

 Another possibility is 
> that Harry will end up either going through that archway or 
> traveling to "the world of the dead" by some other means, either to 
> seek out Sirius or with Sirius acting as his guide for some other 
> purpose.  This will actually fit in with the Hero's Journey  motif 
> while advancing the plot at the same time.  Either way, I strongly
> suspect we'll be hearing from Padfoot again, in one way or another.

Oh, yes. I'm in total agreement with this.  In one form or another, 
Padfoot will be back.  

Marianne