OOP Dumbledore(TOUGHLOVE)

[kiricat2001]

No: HPFGUIDX 65195

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "susanbones2003" <rdas at f...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jsmithqwert" 
> <jsmithqwert at h...> wrote:
> >> 
> > As far as I am concerned, I think that Mrs. Weasley or any other 
> > sympathetic "please cry on my shoulder" person would be precisely 
> > wrong for Harry immediately after the incident.  The reaction of 
> > others immediately after a highly emotional/traumatic event 
greatly 
> > impact our impression of that event.  Not only does Harry need to 
> > understand what has happened, as understanding is the key to 
> > acceptance, but he also must learn to face tragedy and trauma 
> without 
> > falling apart.

Needing some simple, human comfort does not qualify in my book as 
falling apart.

> > Harry, as an individual, faces a lot.   Dumbledore himself admits 
> > that Harry has had a more difficult time in school than any other 
> > student that has ever come to Hogwarts.  Whats more, if the world 
> is, 
> > in the long term, to continue to exist in relative peace and 
> > stability, Harry must succeed in "vanquishing" Voldemort.  Only 
an 
> > emotionally strong, resolute, and relatively stoic person will be 
> > able to endure the truly difficult road ahead.

If Harry needs to so rein in his emotions that he can *never* give in 
to a strong emotion, then he's in deeper trouble than we thought.  If 
he can't give in to grief or anger, what does he do about these 
feelings?  And, God forbid he should fall in love.  That might make 
him do something stupid. Automaton Harry may very well be the perfect 
killing machine to get rid of Voldemort, but what is he left with 
afterwards?

 
> > One of Harry's key developmental issues, as Dumbledore admits, is 
> > that adults "baby" him.  They must allow him to grow into manhood 
> and 
> > must allow him the responsibility that fate has dictated. 

I'm having trouble trying to put the adults in Harry's life into the 
role of 'baby-ers."  The Dursleys? The professors?  His own head of 
house doesn't alwasy cut him slack.  Lupin?  He taught Harry some 
necessary skills, like that Patronus that came in rather handy at the 
beginning of OoP.  Sirius?  They haven't spent enough time together 
to that relationship to develop fully.  The Weasleys?  Maybe Molly, 
she's prone to going into full defensive mode, but she seems to do 
that for all of her children, too. Dumbledore?  Well, he didn't tell 
Harry everything.  I'm not sure that qualifies as babying.

 Failure 
> to 
> > tell Harry the truth has already brought him close to disaster.  
> What 
> > he needs is a little "tough love," which not only would teach him 
> to 
> > deal with his own problems rather than dumping them on the world, 
> but 
> > would also help him reign in his overwrought emotionalism.

Really, I don't get how Harry has been dumping his problems on 
everyone.  In OoP, he has certainly been angry and has not treated 
Ron and Hermione terrbily well, but, he's at an age where crap can 
happen with the most evn-tempered of kids.  In fact, we have seen 
ample evidence of Harry struggling through problems without a lot of 
help from anyone.  And, with a good deal of suspicion or dislike 
being directed at him from his peers.  Harry the Parselmouth, 
suspected of petrifying people in CoS?  Harry, the lone champion in 
GOF whom many suspect of putting his name in the goblet?  How much 
support did he get from others then?

And now, Harry is slandered in the press, sniped at by the MoM, and 
dealing with feelings of isolation and being kept in the dark.  And, 
who else in his society has any idea of what it is like to be 
Voldemort's challenge and target?

So the kid was snarky.  He's not a saint. Nor should he be expected 
to be.  Yes, he must learn control and to manage his emotions, but, 
he's dealing with very adult situations, and he's a KID!


> > Voldemort has been playing on Harry's childish emotional state 
all 
> > year, the last thing that Dumbledore can do now is to allow Harry 
> to 
> > continue in that state.  I think that isolating Harry and forcing 
> him 
> > to deal with his emotions was the most effective method of 
dealing 
> > with the problem. 

But, it didn't seem to work.  How did Harry's isolation help him deal 
with his anger and his feelings of betrayal and separateness?  

 Was it cold-hearted? Of course it was, but it 
> was 
> > also necessary, and I am confident that, given their current 
> > development in the story, none of the other characters would have 
> > taken that appropriate attitude with Harry.  He doesn't need a 
> > friend . . . he has already got pleanty of those.  What he needs 
is 
> a 
> > mentor, and I belive that that is the position that J. K. Rowling 
> is 
> > putting Dumbledore in.
> 
> 
> JenD writes:
> I agree with you that Harry needed someone to help him grasp the 
> situation without a lot of emotion, someone to help him get through 
> everything that has happened, make sense of it and go on. And I 
don't 
> want to see Harry wallow in anything. But I was uncommonly struck 
by 
> the fact that Harry had no one, no person in this whole large set 
of 
> well-wishers that he could confide his messed up, fragmented, 
jumbled 
> feelings to. No one to pat him on the shoulder or hold him or even 
> say "wow man, you've been through a lot." Some one said earlier, 
> forgive me, that he was reduced to sitting in a bush crying. 

That may have been me.  I commented on how the scene of Harry sitting 
by the lake grieving by himself struck me as a picture of utter 
despair.  Yes, sometimes people need to be by themselves.  And Harry 
may not feel comfortable breaking down and crying on someone's 
shoulder.  He may need to work through some of his feelings by 
himself at this point - he makes clear he doesn't want to talk about 
Sirius to Hagrid or to R/H. But the fact that he may feel that way, 
and that there was indeed no evidence of any adult offering him help, 
or comfort or perspective on what happened was a cold and lonely 
scene.  

That is 
> harsh man. Harsh. Is he such the superhero that he is no longer in 
> need of human contact? That was so lacking in this book and I know 
> there's a reason but I don't understand the reason. Does anyone 
know 
> of a better reason than "Harry needs tough love?" I don't find that 
> completely logical or at all satisfying. I'm sorry but for some 
> reason, Molly doesn't even move him anymore. I don't completely 
> understand that either. But JKR allowed no one to break through to 
> his heart and demonstrate a connection. Showing up at the station 
was 
> great but very public and very "surfacy." Is this the result of 
> losing Sirius? That his heart is in cold storage?

I hope that the beginnig of Book 6 shows some sort of closure for 
Harry.  Or at least that we hear of someone attempting to reach him 
in his grief.  He can always choose to keep people at arms length, 
but I'd like to see at least one adult make an effort.

Marianne