Wendy is disturbed <G> Re: OOP: Something that disturbed me (Cruciatus)

[jmgarciaiii]

No: HPFGUIDX 65542

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Wendy St John" 
<hebrideanblack at e...> wrote:
> 
> Moving on . . . Joe in SoFla wrote:
> 
> "I disagree that it was a "default" but rather it was a reflexive 
> action."
> 
> Wendy again:
> 
> This may be getting into semantics, but I would consider those two 
words to
> mean approximately the same thing in this context: Default - 
meaning an
> automatic selection in the absence of a choice made by the user; 
Reflexive
> - meaning habitual and unthinking behaviour. In some ways, I think 
your
> word actually makes it sound *less* noble - that Harry is in the 
habit of
> unthinkingly casting unforgiveable curses. <G> But I guess that's 
actually
> one of things of which I'm afraid - that this sort of action 
*will* become
> his habitual response. I'm not saying that's where he's headed. 
But we
> don't know yet that he won't.

The crux of the disagreement is whether HP is (or will be) in the 
HABIT (emphasis mine) of this sort of behavior. When I 
wrote "reflexive" I meant to emphasize the unthinking aspect. It's 
not unlike being in an argument with someone one dislikes and 
blurting out a bit of profanity. Clearly this would be an unthinking 
behavior, but hardly a default (as in: "If X happens, I will always 
do Y") behavior.

> I also
> respectfully disagree that a curse must have an unforgiveable 
result to
> "count."  Harry's intent was to cause pain (and no, in this case I 
do not
> see anything which distinguishes "pain" from "torture." I just 
don't). For
> all we know you may be *right* from a legal standpoint (perhaps he 
didn't
> actually commit a crime because she didn't end up writhing on the 
floor).
> But I'm not concerned with legality here, rather with what I 
perceive to be
> the moral implications for Harry. The fact that he wanted to cause 
pain and
> chose to cast an unforgiveable curse in order to acheive that end 
distubs
> me. For his sake. Again, this is all just my opinion, and we're 
both
> entitled to view this issue however we prefer. :-)

Let me take this, for the purpose of analogy, to an extreme. Let's 
say you carry a knife, one of those handy-dandy Swiss Army types. 
Let's further say you and your friends get into a scuffle with some 
Very Bad People. In the middle of the melee, you take out your SAK 
and stab at someone, who dies. Have you committed 1st Degree/Capital 
murder? No. You have committed manslaughter (sorry for the Amero-
centric terminology), which carries less severe penalties. Why? 
Premeditation is the key ingredient.

HP didn't think, the night before: "Let me see if we bump into a 
pack of DEs, so that one of them kills someone I hold quite dear in 
the ensuing brawl, and s/he enjoys it...so that I may take some 
particularly nasty action, but what ought I do? Aha! An Unforgivable 
Curse, yes! Which one? Why, Cruciatus, of course. Good thinking. Now 
I may get some well deserved slumber."

I see a very clear, broad chasm between "pain" and "torture" much 
like there is a difference between being spanked by your father or 
flogged by the KGB or Gestapo. HP was looking for a retaliatory 
action and the best he could do given the WHOLE morass of 
circumstances was a weak Cruciatus curse. I maintain the 
unforgivable factor is a function of result, not intent.

> While I think by now you'll have noticed that I don't agree with 
your
> sentiment of "happy" <g>, I do agree that the fact he was unable 
to do it
> is a VERY GOOD sign. This is certainly the lesson I hope he takes 
away from
> this experience - that he just doesn't have whatever it takes to 
really
> cast Dark curses. I really, really, really hope that our lovely 
Harry isn't
> going to go down the wrong path for a while. I don't doubt that 
he'd return
> to the "light" eventually, but I would really rather have him not 
go to the
> dark at all. We've all seen what that sort of thing has done to 
our darling
> Severus <g>.

I believe this will show HP that he is really incapable of doing the 
Dark Arts thing all that well. Still, where does the leave HP if the 
prophecy is as I read it (i.e., kill LV or be killed by him)? How 
can he defeat him without using AK?

87% less disturbed than Wendy,

-Joe in SoFla