OOP: Rebuttal to FLOOZY No.I - The Dumbledore Papers

[Susan Smith]

No: HPFGUIDX 65772

Regretfully, I am unable to see the excellence of the review and feel 
the partners in their haste overlooked some key issues.  With all due 
respect, the partners themselves represent the fatesso they should 
know that some of what happened or did not happen was destined. 

I would suggest re-review of performance based on the following:

Some additional qualifications of Dumbledore are that he is a gifted 
alchemist (Flamel et al), and an Occlumen.  His Omniscience may also 
work outside Hogwarts, after all he knew when Harry got his ministry 
warning for Using magic and responded immediately.

Further, <Kneasy> said The unfortunate events at Godrics Hollow 
cannot be directly attributed to errors by Dumbledore, though he was 
undoubtedly remiss in allowing his Organisation to be penetrated by a 
double agent... Dumbledore did not have the opportunity to use his 
Legilimancy skills on Pettigrew in the critical period, but it is 
still disappointing.

<REPLY>  What if Pettigrew was an Occlumen-then no Legilimen, no 
matter how gifted would have known.  Or what if the Dark Lord's 
Occlumency extended to Pettigrew.  

Evaluation: Exceptional

2. The Stone Fiasco.

<Kneasy> In addition to guarding the Subject, Dumbledore was also 
involved in the wider watch against Voldemorts return. He had taken 
into safe-keeping Mr Flamels Stone... His own precautions proved to 
be just as lax, there being not just one, but two penetrations of his 
security systems.

The first, by an adult wizard under the control and/or possession of 
Voldemort and employed by Dumbledore as the DADA teacher, brings into 
question, once again, his Legilimancy skills.

<REPLY>  BUT, if Dumble dore is at fault for not noticing Quirrel's 
better half, then so, too ar Sybill Trelawney, and Severus Snape a 
noted and gifted Legilimen/Occlumen. I still persist with the belief 
that either Occlumency by Quirrel or V. prevented knowledge or some 
other form of dark magic which we do not yet know.

<Kneasy> The second, by three eleven year old untrained students, 
beggars belief. More so since one of the three was Potter, on whom he 
was supposedly keeping a watchful eye.

<REPLY>  Part of Dumbledore's role could be construed as 
mentor/teacher, etc.  surely it was necessary to allow his"flock" to 
walk, be curious, grow, learn etc.  Further, who is to say that 
Dumbledore did not know in advance the precise outcome of the 
Squabble for the Stone and as such "chose" not to intervene.  We hear 
alot about old magic, etc. It could be that there are forces at work 
which we do not yet understand.

<Kneasy>  it was only the impatient eagerness of his servant to lay 
hands on the Stone that saved the situation. A wizard would normally 
have used spells to obtain the Stone from Potter.
"Accio!", "Imperio!" or even "Stupify!" - any of these and the Stone 
would have been lost. 

<REPLY>  Agin it boils down to human nature and personal choice.  V. 
chose Quirrel (with all his habits (impatience) and ineptitudes)  V. 
himself could not take the stone or perform magic-

<Kneasy> Meanwhile, in total ignorance of this crisis, Dumbledore had 
allowed himself to become distracted by a fake message and was not in 
any position to have any effect on the outcome. 

<REPLY>
Dumbledore only got so far toward the Ministry when he "felt" he had 
to return -so perhaps Legilimency has its limits-we really do not 
know enough about Occlumens/Legilimens to know the constraints-i.e.: 
must the other person to be "felt"/"blocked" be present?  In Harry's 
case V. is always part of him because of their exchange of bits and 
pieces of each other, but based on what JKR has shown us the other 
practicioners were in the same place/room as their subjects.

<Kneasy>...intention of the whole episode was to 'Steepen 
Potters learning curve'. This is to Our mind, facile. The entire 
event demonstrates a carelessness bordering on culpability.

<REPLY>  Again, recall that all of these people are, alas, people-we 
then get back to the debate of choice, free will, etc.  whether 
events were to train Potter up or not, the events were truly Potter, 
Granger and Weasley' choices. 

Evaluation: Exceptional

<Kneasy>  Dumbledore is once again outflanked by Voldemort in the 
guise of a Tom Riddle construct transported into the school by an 
innocent student. The mental possession of this student and the 
events dependent upon this indicate a lamentable lack of diligence. 
Key clues were missed, deductions were not made. When the situation 
deteriorated to such an extent that staff and students were 
approaching panic,

<REPLY> Dumbledore and staff regrettably did NOT have ALL of the 
clues, and were unable to deduce.  ONLY Harry (and through his 
sharing Ron & Hermione) was a witness to Lucius picking up Ginny's 
books (which later triggers knowledge of where the diary came from); 
Tom's memories of the Hagrid/Aragon debacle; Hermione's slip of 
paper; his parsel tongue abilities; Moaning Myrtle's recall of 
events; Tom's diary; Ginny's posession and manipulation (which he 
gallantly tried to hide even from Dumbledore), yada, yada, yada.  
Your expectation that Dumbledore is God and could solve the puzzle 
with missing pieces is absurd.  Fifty years prior he was only a 
teacher and did not have opposing facts to prove otherwise.  Too, 
there is no indication his skills were yet "incredible"-it would be 
years before the first Order of Phoenix etc.  And the present day 
situation had too many holes.  Harry was the only informed player.  
Dumbledore however made sure that Harry had the puzzle pieces in his 
posession (knowledge of phoenixes, earned respect of Harry, knowledge 
of the mirror of Erised, etc.)  Again give the "saviour" the facts 
and pieces, let him "choose" how to use them.

After all isn't your existence (fate) a dependence on lucky guesses 
and choices which could go either way, but are guided by some unseen 
force (the fates) toward a woven, measured and then cut decision.

Keep in mind the prophecy was to be fulfilled, so without his 
knowledge of Tom's diary, and other issues, Albus would have been  
thought Harry was safe until meeting Voldemort in the final battle.

Evaluation: Oustanding

<Kneasy>
Much Ado about nothing..then ...there were still serious faults in 
Hogwarts security. Dumbledore rescued the situation by his suggestion 
to use the Timeturner. Even so, it was a risky gamble.

<REPLY>
Again, Dumbledore did not have all of the ingredients necessary-so he 
was proactive-by hiring Lupin as DADA-he knew Sirius, knew about the 
MWPP coalition and Animagi abilities, shrieking shack, whomping 
willow, etc.  But he didn't know Harry had the marauders map, could 
not control the MoM decisions and use of Dementors at Hogwarts (we 
were truly seeing the first inkling of Cornelius Fudge and Dumbledore 
taking separate paths), yada, yada, yada.  Again, he provided Harry 
with facts and choices and let our hero choose.  Again, he knew that 
Harry's fate lay in a "battle" against V. and not with Sirius or even 
Wormtail.  After all he had heard the full prophecy.  So, some of 
what you perceive as ambivalence or carelessness was simply a wise 
old wizard's understanding of "QUE SERA, SERA" (what will be will 
be)  he may not have known when the "end" was coming, but he knew the 
players. 

Evaluation: Oustanding (he did not waste valuable time, skill, 
energy, etc. unnecessarily)

<Kneasy> Triwizard Tournament-Quick thinking and mendacity could have 
avoided many problems if, when the 4th slip emerged from the Cup, he 
had named it as, say, Draco Malfoy.

<REPLY>  The Goblet of Fire was a magical object under the influence 
of a Confundus charm, but still spit out Harry's name-Dumbledore is 
not only honest, but to go against thousands of years of tradition 
and impune the process by voicing another's name is Riddikulus!  

<Kneasy> The shortcomings mentioned above resulted in the death of an 
innocent,the temporary abduction and attempted murder of the Subject, 
and the re-birth of Voldemort. Once again sheer luck saved Potter and 
allowed him to return bringing information that few wanted to believe.

<REPLY>  Three things resulted in Cedric's death: 1.  He was a 
skilled participant and reached the center of the maze first; 2. he 
was noble and valiant and told Harry to take the cup in return for 
Harry's hints, protection, etc.;  (NOTE-both are CHOICES!! made by 
Cedric); 3. Voldemort and his followers "killed the spare".  None of 
this was related to Dumbledore.  Surely, minds great enough to set up 
the entire "trap" (Bertha's info; Moody's capture, Crouch Jr's 
infiltration; The GOF fiasco re 4th school; etc.) would have found 
some other way to challenge Potter even if he was not participating.  
Clearly his participation was a result of Dark force intervention.  
It is almost as if the Dark Side was looking forward to it, so much 
so that they even trained Harry to prepare him for it.  Do not forget 
that the "fake" Moody (Crouch Jr) taught Harry some very valuable 
magic during his stint as DADA instructor and of course what he 
learned working on his own with friends.
  
<Kneasy> We find it difficult to believe that Dumbledore had no 
suspicions about "Moody". They are old friends who worked together in 
the Phoenix Organisation. Even if the physical disguise was perfect 
and even with the genuine Moody handy for information, even the most 
casual conversations between such long established friends in the 
course of the school year would expose revealing gaps in the 
Crouch/Moody knowledge and memory.

<REPLY>  Rasberries!  Draco has known Crabbe and Goyle forever, yet 
due to the strong magic of the Poly Juice potion he did not know it 
was Ron and Harry.  Crouch had not only Polyjuice but first hand info 
from a cursed and controlled Moody.  Plus, Dumbledore's friendship 
with Moody was long, but we do not know how close or detailed.  
Sirius knew Bellatrix for a long time, but NOT WELL.  Too, the other 
teachers did not know Moody well, and most of his day to day 
activities would have been with them and not the Headmaster.

As for lack of foresight at the unmasking-I agree we see further 
evidence of the duplicity of the MoM-Fudge, Bagman (?) and a 
foreshadowing of the bad choices made by dementors.

Evaluation: Exceptional

<Kneasy>  Dementors and the Ministry...Once again We have to report 
that the Subject has been exposed to extreme danger...Dumbledore's 
rescue mission was timely for Potter and his friends but came too 
late to prevent the single fatality that occurred. 
<REPLY> Poppycock, if anything we see the parallel of how Sirius and 
Harry both have to (for their protection and at Dumbledore's 
insistence)wait things out.  We also see the parallel moments of 
arrogance, lonliness, angst, and defiance.  Again, it came down to 
and individual's CHOICES and knowing when/why to act.  Dumbledore 
would never SQUASH/CONTROL the very human nature and emotions that he 
feels will be the downfall of V.  Black's death resulted from his 
emotional desire to go to the aid of his beloved godson, and also 
from the arrogance with which he fought Bellatrix and his own 
admitted lack of knowledge of her (her skills, power etc.)  He was 
unprepared for battle with her-she is almost his nemesis.

(Kneasy> ( Note: Dumbledore is renowned for not lying. He is also 
renowned for not telling the entire truth. We have not been able to 
confirm that he repeated the prophecy verbatim.)

<REPLY> Dumbledore ALWAYS tells the entire truth-regretffuly he does 
not always tell the entire story-there is a difference.  Again, he 
too is human.  He has many decisions to make and some of his choices 
appear questionable.  But, bottom line is that he has successfully 
protected Harry for 15 years while providing him with a closely knit 
group of fellow defenders and allowing him to amass an exceptional 
amount of knowledge and practical skills.  What an incredible job he 
has done.

Evaluation: Outstanding.

Conclusion.

Dumbledore is a humble man who still became the most powerful wizard 
and still feared by Tom Riddle (battle at the MoM)albeit a man at the 
mercy of his and his followers human nature, free will (choice)and 
fate.  I say humble because we have never seen such displays of 
arrogance as we have with V., Harry, Sirius, James, etc.  Too, it is 
everyone else and not himself that always says he is the greatest.

Overall Evaluation: Exceptional (only prevented from Outstanding, 
because this reviewer feels there is always room for improvement and 
ultimately the greatest wizard there ever was will be Harry Potter.

I leave you with 2 questions:
1.  Are you working for Cornelius Fudge?
2.  If not the strong, wise, talented Dumbledore, who?  Who would 
lead the Light forces to victory?

Sincerely,

Atropos Gryffin (who really enjoyed debating this with one of her 
namesakes)