Harry's Big Money Gift.....(Was: Clues from GoF)

[Erica <cymru1ca@yahoo.ca>]

No: HPFGUIDX 53075

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "bluesqueak <pipdowns at e...>" 
<pipdowns at e...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Erica <cymru1ca at y...>" 
> <cymru1ca at y...> wrote:
> <Snip> 
> > Me:  
> > 
> > I don't think that Harry analysed want vs need when he 'forced' 
> > the money onto the twins.  He's been trying to get rid of it, to 
> > give it to anyone since he 'won' it (didn't he offer it to the 
> > Diggory's too?).  
> 
> 'Anyone' is not the case. In canon Harry only offers the money to 
> Cedric Diggory's parents before he gives it to the twins.
> 

> I would point out that Cedric's parents are *morally* the people 
the 
> money should have gone to. Had Fudge believed Harry's story, he 
> would have known that Cedric was the real winner of the Triwizard 
> Tournament and that his prize money should have gone to his 
parents, 
> who would be his heirs in law. Even with Fudge *not* believing 
> Harry's story, Cedric still touched the Triwizard cup at the same 
> time as Harry; Harry should *never* have been given the full 
> thousand. The prize should have been split.

> I doubt the Diggory's would ever have wanted the money, but they 
> should at least have been asked by Fudge if they would like it used 
> for something in Cedric's memory. But Fudge doesn't want to 
remember 
> Cedric. He wants the whole affair swept under the carpet.
> 
> Harry offers it to Cedric's parents with the words 'It should've 
> been Cedric's, he got there first ...' [GoF, UK paperback,Ch. 37 
> p.621]. 
> 
> So, in canon, the only people he's tried to give the money away to 
> are the people who have a moral claim to it, *or* the people who 
> he's just found out were cheated out of their savings. 
> 



As far as Harry's concerned it's blood money - he doesn't care who 
takes it, he just doesn't want to have anything to do with it.


"You've got to take the rest of your potion, Hary, 'Mrs Weasley said 
at last. <snip> Try and think about something else for a while ... 
think about what you're going to buy with your winnings!" 


'I don't want that gold,' said Harry in an expressionles voice. 'You 
have it.  Anyone can have it.  I shouldn't have won it.  I should've 
been Cedrics'[GoF, CA hardback, Ch. 36 p.619].


> > Nobody wanted to take it, so he's stuck with it on the train 
> > ride home where he comes to find out the twins' hard luck story 
> > and foists the money onto them.  They are hesitant to take it 
> > until Harry *insists*.  
> 
> Yup. I'd be hesitant if a fourteen year old offered me a thousand 
> quid as a gift. One thousand galleons is probably more like, say, 
> fifteen thousand quid? 20,000 dollars? Gred and Forge, for all 
their 
> joking around and having little bets, show their basic honesty by 
> *not* wanting to take Harry's money. 

Yes, I agree.  They are basically honest and obviously think that 
Harry is quite barmy in trying to give it away.


> 
> Harry is also quite specific about what he wants the money to be 
> used for: 'You take it and get inventing. It's for the joke-shop.' 
> [GoF, UK paperback,Ch. 37 p.635]. He asks them to buy Ron new dress 
> robes as a 'favour'.
> 


> Would Cedric have liked the way Harry used his prize money? 
> Probably. He was a Hufflepuff who values hard work. He would have 
> liked the fact that Harry gives the money specifically to help 
start 
> the twins in their career. A career, incidentally, that Harry knows 
> the Twins have been working hard on. He valued fair play; he would 
> have liked the fact that Harry uses it to help two boys who have 
> been *cheated* out of their savings.
> 
> 

'Take it,' he said, and he thrust the sack into George's hands
'What?' said Fred, looking flabbergasted.
'Take it,' Harry repeated firmly.  'I don't want it'
'You're mental,' said George, trying to pus it back at Harry.

[here we have a little 'hot potato' session with the sack of Galleons 
being thrust back and forth]

'No, I'm not,' said Harry.  'You take it, and get inventing.  It's 
for the joke-shop'

[The one thing that Harry could have said that we convince the twins 
to take it]

'Listen,' said Harry firmly.  'If you don't take it, I'm throwing it 
down the drain.  I don't want it and I don't need it.  But I could do 
with a few laughs. [GoF, CA hardback,Ch. 37 p.635]. 

He also asks them not to tell their mother where they got it (whould 
she force them to give it back?) and asks that they buy Ron some 
different dress robes and *say they're from you*.  He wants to avoid 
a putting Ron in a situation of accepting an expensive(?) gift from 
him.


> > I don't think that Harry even entertained 
> > the thought of giving it to Ron, not because he thought that Ron 
> > would blow it all on himslef on sweets and 'toys' (I happen to 
> > think that if Ron came into some money he'd be sharing it with 
his 
> > whole family not keeping it for himself) but because he knows 
> > that Ron *hates* to be beholding to him.  Everytime Harry tries 
to 
> > give Ron a gift out of the ordinary (i.e. outside Christmas, 
> > birthdays) it seems to irritate the bejeezus out of Ron.  Isn't 
> > that what the 'Buy Ron a new dress robe but don't tell him 
they're 
> > from me' is all about?  What would Ron do if he found out that 
his 
> > new dress robes *were* from Harry?
> > Erica
> 
> 
> Which goes back to Jealous!Ron, which is where this whole thing 
> started. Ron can't accept generous gifts from a close friend who 
can 
> easily afford them. 

That's not so much Jealous!Ron as Proud!Ron, isn't that a trait 
shared by all the Weasleys?

Further, Ron doesn't seem to value his family's 
> ability to give non-monetary gifts. Mr Weasley has wangled two 
extra 
> tickets for the QWC so Ron's *two* closest friends can come. Both 
of 
> Ron's good friends also get invited to stay at The Burrow for two 
> weeks.
> 
> So Harry had just received the gift of the QWC trip from the 
> Weasley's. Why shouldn't he buy a 'thank you' present for Ron? But 
> Ron can't see it that way. Ron only wants Harry to buy him the sort 
> of things that Ron can afford. 
> 
> Ron is like the friend in a pub who won't let you buy him a drink 
> because *he* can't afford to buy you one. This can really put a 
> damper on a good evening [grin]. Especially when your friend can't 
> seem to understand that you *know* he'd buy his round if he had the 
> money. 
> to two people he knows who need the money and will use it for their 
> futures? Especially since, as Harry points out, the WW is probably 
> going to 'need' a few good laughs in its near future ....


The question was (Carry wrote:)
> Well....why didn't Harry give Ron the money?? Ron's his best 
> friend, he knows he needs money for things. He knows how 
> frustrated Ron is of hand-me-downs, etc. Ron is always (well 
> except for a huge part of GoF) there for him, helped him get on 
> his feet in the WW, etc. He owes Ron a lot. And he just disses him 
> like that. You would think at least he would give the twin's the 
> money Ludo owed them and the balance to Ron. Is our little Harry 
> harboring angst toward Ron still?? Hmmmm...

You suggested:

I think Harry is distinguishing between 'want' and 'need'. <snip>

If he gives it to Ron, all Ron 
will do is spend it on sweets, toys and the sort of stuff a 14 year 
old would spend it on. If he gives it to the Twins, they'll use it 
to kick start their career ....

However, I'm of the opinion that there was no 'distinguishing between 
want and need' on Harry's part.

Harry didn't give Ron the money (IMHO), not because he was harboring 
angst towards Ron, but because he *knew* Ron wouldn't take it and 
that even suggesting it would wrankle  - so why bother. So he's back 
to where he'd started - how does he get rid of it. 

He didn't analyse the how Ron vs the Twins would *use* the 
money: 'What would Ron spend the money on if I gave it to him.  Would 
he fritter it away' 'The Twins, OTOH, have a career goal in mind.  
They won't fritter it away. They'd invest it.  Yeah, thats it, I'll 
give it to the twins'

Erica (hopes to God she's didn't make a mess of the cutting and 
pasting ;) )