Lily & Voldemort/ a wee bit of anti-sexism (WAS: Re: Godric's Hollow)

[nobodysrib <nobodysrib@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 53138

I've done a bunch of hypothesizing about Lily/James/Voldemort on that 
night, and couldn't resist joining in and asking a few questions of 
my own.

First off, as long as I'm delving in, I'll post some of the canon in 
response to:

Aldrea asked: 

> Did Dumbledore actually state that Lily is what *saved* Harry that 
night, or that Lily is just what provides Harry with the protection 
that saved him from Quirrellmort..?

Me:

"Your mother died to save you.  If there is one thing V cannot 
understand, it is love.  He didn't realize that love as powerful as 
your mother's love for you leave its own mark. <snip> to have been 
loved so deeply, even though the person who loved us is gone, will 
give us some protection forever," D to H, SS, US Hardcover, pg 299

Aldrea wrote, discussing James' role in saving Harry's life:
> he decided to go down fighting.  Which, one could argue, really 
> isn't any different than Lily's decision to stand and protect Harry.
<snip> 
> Unless, of course, someone can find a more defined difference 
> between what James did for Harry and what Lily did for Harry. 

Me: 

My concerns on this subject are mildly related - but instead of 
wondering about differences between James and Lily's *actions* for 
*Harry*, I want to know about the differences between James and 
Lily's *relationship* with *Voldemort*.  

Let me explain:  Voldemort treats James and Lily differently that 
night, placing different values on their lives.

Voldemort told Lily to get out of the way so he could kill Harry (as 
heard by Harry when encountering the Dementors).  Why would he care 
whether or not he killed Lily/ why wouldn't he just kill her and then 
go after Harry instead of preferring to kill Harry first?

easy answer:  He wanted Lily to see Harry die to torture her before 
killing her.  But then why would he wish this for Lily - and not for 
James (who he has already killed)?  That's treating Lily and James 
differently.

next answer:  He didn't want to kill Lily.  He was going after Harry, 
James got in the way (and his dying or living was insignificant), and 
so James was killed.  But when Lily got in the way there was some 
reason that Voldemort didn't want her to die.  

the canon (sort of) backs this up:

"I killed your father first... but your mother needn't have died," V 
to H, SS, US Hardcover, pg 294.

Now we can't necessarily *believe* Voldemort, but I've also thought 
one of the most evil ways to manipulate someone is to use the truth 
for your own devices.

And regardless of Voldemort's truthfulness, it doesn't change his 
actions (or, what we know of them) on the night James and Lily died.  
So what is the reason for giving Lily special treatment?  

Whatever it is, there's going to be a Greek Tragedy type of thing 
going on - had V *not* given Lily special treatment, he never would 
have fallen...  he would have taken the easiest route to killing the 
family - 1st James, then Lily (w/o trying for Harry to be victim #2), 
and then Harry.  No option for Lily to "step aside", thus no reason 
for Lily's actions to evoke that deepest-mother's-love/sacrifice-
magic.  So, Voldemort's special relationship with Lily was his 
ultimate downfall (and, by association, Harry has become known as 
being the reason for his downfall.)

The star wars/I Am Your Father (or grandfather or uncle...) 
explanation for the Voldemort-Lily connection is a bit too much for 
me, though I don't discount it completely.  (After all, if nothing 
else, Lily's eyes are going to have some important role later on, and 
there's been lots of descriptions of Voldemort's eyes, Voldemort is 
known for hating his male relatives, etc.)  I do like thinking about 
Lily having a darker past than we're led to believe (either as a DE 
or doubleagent!Lily), but with both of these things, I can't imagine 
her staying true to V after learning that he was going to kill her 
husband and child, and if she turned her back on V then I don't see 
why V would try, in effects, to save her life.

And really, that's what Voldemort tried to do.  Take into account 
that we're dealing with the Darkest Wizard - isn't showing even the 
smallest bit of mercy (giving Lily the chance to step aside and not 
be killed) a HUGE thing?  He doesn't even treat Wormtail as well as 
this, and look what Wormtail has done for him!  So what has Lily done 
for Voldemort that deserves this special treatment?

Hmmm... now that I'm thinking about all of this even more, I want to 
know why, if Voldemort *really* didn't want Lily in the way, he 
didn't just Imperius Curse her into moving aside.  Was there someone 
else there, coughcoughSnapecoughcough, for whom Voldemort wanted to 
put forth the facade of attempting to save Lily?  And, although I 
hate to repeat myself again - if this is the case, what makes Lily 
(or the "person in the corner", or both) so special?

(Then again, maybe Lily's sacrifice is in the books just to focus on 
the importance of motherhood/ power of women, and Voldemort's 
treatment of Lily just goes along with a positive treatment of women 
theme.  That'd be nice, especially considering how some accuse the 
books of having sexist themes.  Yeah, it'd be nice - but not nearly 
as much fun.)

- Nobody's Rib