Spectators and Security (WAS: Seeing the TASKS)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 53319

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "erisedstraeh2002"
<erisedstraeh2002 at y...> wrote:
> bboy_mn wrote:
> 
> >So I think without a doubt there was at least some limited vision 
> >into the maze of the third task.
> 
> Now me: (Phyllis)
> 
> ... all of the indications are that it's quite dark 
> inside the maze.  

bboy_mn:
And I addressed that issue by pointing out that dark and quiet inside
the maze could simply have been to prevent the crowd's spontaneous
reactions or intentional action from helping the contestants.

But as you pointed out farther down in this post, and as I pointed out
clearly in the post you are responding to, we will never know what
people did or didn't see, or did or didn't do until someone in the
book tells us what they saw.
- - - - - 


> ..., there's no indication that anyone noticed Harry 
> and Cedric's disappearance when they touched the Cup.  

bboy_mn:
Well, we are at a stalemate. There is no indication so far that people
noticed Harry and Cedric disappear, but by the same token, I see no
evidence indicating that they did not see it happen. 
- - - - - -

> They are all still seated in the stands when Harry returns with 
> Cedric's body.  


bboy_mn:
Not exactly. Common logic says that the Dumbledore and the teachers
would keep people in their seat while they investigated. It would
serve no purpose to have 1,000 (random number) people milling around
and getting in the way. So just to keep things orderly, they would
tell most people to stay in their seats. 

But the same logic also say that there is no reason to assume
literally everyone was in their seat doing nothing and completely
unaware that anything had happened.

The first crowd reaction after Harry returns is, "A torrent of sound
deafened and confised him; there were voices everywhere, footsteps,
screams...". He is already laying on the ground at this point. Next,
after Dumbledore rolled Harry over, "Harry felt the ground beneath his
head reverberateing with their footsteps." Then, "He could see the
stands rising above him, the shapes of people moving in them,...". So
I would not argue that /most/ people where sitting in the stands, but
Dumbledore got there pretty fast for someone who was sitting in the
stands clueless. Fudge appears next, Dumbledore lifts Harry to his
feet, and by that time the crowd is jostling around them.

Again, I want to re-enforce that until someone in the book tells us,
be can never really know what happened.
- - - - - - -



> ... I was hoping to take this discussion down a different, but 
> related path.
> 
> Which is:  Why, with Dumbledore "reading the signs" of Voldemort 
> regaining power, and with his concern about Harry's safety during
> the Tournament, would two of the three tasks take place with little 
> or no  ability for Dumbledore to see what's going on?
> 


bboy_mn:

Again, we can only fill in the gaps with imagination. Dumbledore was
'reading the signs' that Voldemort /seemed/ to be getting stronger.
While very close, 'getting stronger' and 'regaining power' are not
quite the same thing. Then he was getting stronger, now he is
regaining power. But you still have a valid point. 

For one thing, the task had already been decided before the tournament
begain. So inventing new tasks on the spur of the moment was probably
not workable. Then the safety goal of the new tournament was to make
sure no one got killed, not to make sure no one got injured.
Dumbledore said at the beginning that the task would be difficult and
very dangerous which is why no one under 17 was allowed to enter.

So what would have happened to Harry if a grindylow got him? Well a
grindylow /got/ Fleur, yet she somehow managed to get back OK. We
could assume that once the grindylow has sufficiently disabled her to
the point where she couldn't continue, that someone rescued her. If
she was not rescued, then how did she get away from the grindylow? On
the otherhand, if she freed herself, then why didn't she continue on
searching for her sister? Unless I'm mistaken Fleur used the same
'bubble head' charm that Cedric did. My point in all this, is that
there could be some safety precaution that we couldn't see. A very
likely example was your suggestion of Merpeople lurking in the shadows.
- - - - - -


> But even this theory breaks down when I remember how  scared they 
> were of Harry's wand.
> 

bboy_mn:
They were scared of Harry's wand because Harry was threatening them
with it. I don't see that interferring with there potential attempts
to rescue a contestant in trouble.
- - - - - -

> Whether the spectators  could see anything in the third task is 
> debatable, but I think having blast-ended skrewts and giant spiders 
> in the maze was extremely dangerous. ...

bboy_mn:
Can't argue with that, the best I can do is imagine possible
explanations. I certainly hope in the next book H/R/H discuss the
tournament so that the rest of us can find out what the spectators
saw. I don't think it's necessary for the book but it sure would be a
load off my mind.
- - - - - - - - 

> ... And clearly, the security does break down when Harry 
> and Cedric touch the Cup and are transported to the graveyard
> without anyone knowing about it or being able to stop it.
> 
> Perhaps giving each champion a dose of "ancient magic" would have 
> been a good way ...  
> 
> ~Phyllis


bboy_mn:
Well, I could argue a techincality on this point, but your main point
is still valid. Knowing that some nefarious force was at work getting
Harry into the tournament, Dubmledore could have taken a few extra
precaution to safe guard him. That would be the logical thing to do,
but it's much more dramatic when the hero is in constant peril.

With so many of these things that we argue about, the ultimate answer
is always, if they had done it the logical way there wouldn't have
been a story, or at least, not as exciting a story.

Finally, my opinion that people could see into the maze to a limited
extent is just based on a reasonable analysis of the mechanics of it
combined with a huge dose of imagination. Ultimately, we won't know
until someone tells us.

Just some thoughts.

bboy_mn