Can the Marauder's Map be deceived?

[siriuskase]

No: HPFGUIDX 54349

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at y...> wrote:

> I don't believe that the map shows anything in the forbidden forest, 
> just as it apparently shows nothing of the inside of Hagrid's hut (as 
> inferred by Lupin's words that he watched the trio enter the hut, and 
> then later saw them leave, but now they were accompanied by 
> Pettigrew).

You inferred that from Lupin's words, but they don't necessarily imply
that the interior of Hagrid's hut is off limits.  Lupin said just
enough to indicate what he saw.  You would think that if he was paying
full attention, he would have noticed Hermione and Peter in the
kitchen area, but he may have been just staring at the dots he cared
about while his mind was occupied by other things.  And the interior
of Hagrids hut may have been too cluttered with the names of Hagrid's
pets to be legible.
> 
> So, Harry, Ron, and Hermione left the castle under the invisibility 
> cloak to see Hagrid before Buckbeak's execution, and Lupin saw them on 
> the map.  Meanwhile, the Timeturned Harry and Hermione discuss what 
> Dumbledore wants them to do and then make a run for the forest, as 
> quickly as they can, but around behind the greenhouses because they 
> are afraid to be seen by someone looking out a window (PoA, Ch 21).  
> The Timeturned H&H leave the castle after the trio do, but arrive in 
> the forest just before the trio knock at Hagrid's door.  Lupin doesn't 
> notice the timeturned pair partly because he is keeping a close eye on 
> the trio already, and partly because the pair are going around 
> another way.
> 
> Okay.  TT!H&H (that's timeturned Harry & Hermione) wait in the forest, 
>  off the map.  The trio leave Hagrid's with Scabbers, and Lupin is 
> watching them intently.  As the Trio make their way along under the 
> invisibility cloak, TT!H&H wait for the right time, Harry emerges from 
> the forest, Harry drags Buckbeak into the cover of the trees, and they 
> move to another spot in the forest where they can see the Whomping 
> Willow.  *Then* they see Ron emerge from the invisibility cloak to 
> chase the fleeing Scabbers.  So, the only time TT!Harry leaves the 
> forest (to get Buckbeak), Lupin is intently watching the Trio in 
> astonishment since he now sees Pettigrew with them.  He does not 
> notice an extra Harry pop out of the forest for Buckbeak.
> 
> TT!H&H remain in their place in the forest while they watch Lupin run 
> into the willow, while Snape goes to Lupin's office and sees *him* 
> running into the willow, and while Snape himself runs into the willow. 
>  Snape never had any opportunity to see TT!H&H at all, as long as the 
> forest is off the map.
> 
> Is there any canon to say that the forest is off the map?  Not really. 

That's right, not really, is it too farfetched to suggest that the
living creatures in the forest (including the trees)  all have souls
and names?  The Whomping Willow sure has a personality.  But if the
names of all the trees, Centaurs, and whatnot were on the map, the
forest might as well be off the map.

>  I did look up the "Veritaserum" chapter of GoF to see how Crouch Jr. 
> described seeing his father arrive at Hogwarts on the map.  Here it 
> is, for what it's worth:
> 
> "For a week I waited for my father to arrive at Hogwarts.  At last, 
> one evening, the map showed my father entering the grounds.  I pulled 
> on my Invisibility cloak and went down to meet him.  He was walking 
> around the edge of the forest. ..."
> 
> So, it sounds as though Crouch Sr. never went through the forest, but 
> around it, which is inconclusive as far as seeing into the forest with 
> the map is concerned.
> 
> And even if TT!H&H were on the map the whole time, it is completely 
> plausible that neither Lupin nor Snape noticed them because they were 
> looking very intently at something else at the time.  But yes, I do 
> believe the map can see double.  As long as there were two Harrys and 
> two Hermiones somewhere that the map showed, then they would all be on 
> the map -- just as it shows transformed animagi and people under 
> invisibility cloaks.  

Everybody is always looking intently at that map, that leads me to
believe that it is hard to read.  This could be due to clutter or
maybe the handwriting font is difficult to read, I always imagine very
tiny cursive writing for the names.  They don't just jump out at you
when you quickly glance at the map.

> 
> Finally, does anyone know whether the Forbidden Forest is part of the 
> Hogwarts grounds or just outside of them?  I would check Dumbledore's 
> words at the welcoming feast in PS/SS, but I can't lay my hands on 
> that book at the moment!

That is an interesting question.  I don't see how it matters in the
case of the map since no one ever indicates whether the map is meant
to show the entire Hogwarts property, just places of interest to the
Marauders that they had been able to explore.  This means that the
entire Hogwarts might not be on the map  They may not have ever been
in the Sltheran common room or Hagrid's hut, therefore these places
wouldn't be on the map, not for a privacy reason, but simply because
the Marouders had never been there.

You question is also relevant to the matter of apparating.  If the
forest was not part of Hogwarts, wouldn't there be a problem with
students sneaking into the forest to apparate to somewhere they aren't
supposed to be?  Maybe there is, but Harry hasn't discovered that kind
of mischief yet.
> 
> Annemehr

sirius kase